4 ms·

A lot of the stuff mentioned in this article -- microsleeps, immune weakness, irrational thoughts and behavior -- sure rings a bell from my university days when

A lot of the stuff mentioned in this article -- microsleeps, immune weakness, irrational thoughts and behavior -- sure rings a bell from my university days when I would, either for work or school "reasons," routinely pull all-nighters. Ended up with some very bad results. Also: Schools in general in my area, including elementary, are starting waaaay earlier than they used to, and the kids aren't getting enough sleep, which leads to lethargy and bad behavior, etc etc. I oppose starting kids on the habit of academically-induced sleep deprivation early in life, but every time I complain about it to school officials, they have some clever comeback centered either on "studies" or the convenience of the parents who pay the taxes Gets me furious

devilmoon 7y ago
Oh boy, the university I'm attending right now has lectures starting at 8am, which is earlier than usual for my country, and ca. 36 hours of lectures per week. This means that you usually go 8am/6pm in uni multiple days a week, then you obviously have your assignments and catching up on the lectures to do, and all the random stuff that comes with living alone (laundry, grocery, cooking, cleaning, etc.) - this means that you quite literally get to the point where you either study or start skipping sleep. I complained to my faculty and the administration because it is quite full of studies that show that sleep deprivation leads to depression, lower performance, etc. And got various responses out of them: - a couple of professors told me that they don't care and if you want to succeed in university you have to sleep less than normal - some admin staff told me that the university doesn't have enough space for everyone, hence they have to start earlier in the morning to gain an additional lecture slot during the day (nevermind the fact that this slot is from 12 to 2pm and is always used for lunch break). This shit really makes me furious, if not even universities which should be run by people that rely on hard data to make their decisions can come to the conclusion that starting the day early either means fucking up the long term health of their students or having people skip lectures altogether, I don't know if anyone ever will. Sorry for any mistakes in my post, for context it's 6:30am and I'm getting ready for a lecture (riding on 5 hours of sleep for a few days in a row now)
- dajohnson89 7y ago
  fwiw, I've had several work meetings before 9am. they weren't my favorite thing in the world, but i didn't have a choice
  - devilmoon 7y ago
    The difference being that those meetings were a one-off or at the very least a rare occurrence. University,on the other hand, is a daily commitment for several years (meaning that it can also lead to chronic sleep deprivation)
- j9461701 7y ago
  What I hated even more about 8 am lectures is I lived an hour and a half away from the university, so from the time I left the house to the time I got home again took like 13 hours every day. And the real knife in my guts is I was paying for the privilege of this. Now I work from home, and saunter in to work at 8 in my pajamas with a bowl of fruit loops. I put in my 8 hours of work, and then I walk 3 feet to my left and flop down on my couch and start playing video games. And they pay me for this! Universities are so damn dysfunctional.
- Hitton 7y ago
  36 hours a week from 8am to 6pm means that you have approximately 2 hours between lectures each day to do your assignments. Sure, it isn't suited to having part time job or much free time, but from my experience it sounds like pretty normal uni routine and no one I know complained. And I warn you, when you are older it isn't going to be any better, just instead of assignments you have to take care of kids.
  - germinalphrase 7y ago
    True fact. Having a baby has helped enforce boundaries on my work schedule (which had been routinely 50-60 a week); however, I am as busy as ever.
jsanl 7y ago
This is especially bad for teenagers as they are wired to sleep at later times in puberty (called "phase delay"). How the are you supposed to learn while being sleep deprived for basically most of your classes?
hrktb 7y ago
> convenience of the parents This is makes it feel like parents are a lazy self-centric bunch. Most parents are bound by their work hours, as a society we haven’t accept yet that normal people should have flexible hours or we can’t all be at home parents. School time is just an effect of that outer context.
driverdan 7y ago
This had a huge impact on me in grade school. From 7-12th grade (middle and high school in the US) I routinely got around 6h of sleep during school nights. I was constantly tired. Combined with ADHD-I I had a really hard time focusing. Looking back at it I would have done much better if I had 8h of sleep.
rootusrootus 7y ago
Public school scheduling is a hard nut to crack. But I don't recall that it has gotten any worse recently, it's always been somebody suffering a very early schedule. There are only so many buses, so many parents to drive their kids, and almost everyone has to be at work first thing in the morning, etc.

devilmoon 7y ago

Oh boy, the university I'm attending right now has lectures starting at 8am, which is earlier than usual for my country, and ca. 36 hours of lectures per week. This means that you usually go 8am/6pm in uni multiple days a week, then you obviously have your assignments and catching up on the lectures to do, and all the random stuff that comes with living alone (laundry, grocery, cooking, cleaning, etc.) - this means that you quite literally get to the point where you either study or start skipping sleep. I complained to my faculty and the administration because it is quite full of studies that show that sleep deprivation leads to depression, lower performance, etc. And got various responses out of them: - a couple of professors told me that they don't care and if you want to succeed in university you have to sleep less than normal - some admin staff told me that the university doesn't have enough space for everyone, hence they have to start earlier in the morning to gain an additional lecture slot during the day (nevermind the fact that this slot is from 12 to 2pm and is always used for lunch break). This shit really makes me furious, if not even universities which should be run by people that rely on hard data to make their decisions can come to the conclusion that starting the day early either means fucking up the long term health of their students or having people skip lectures altogether, I don't know if anyone ever will. Sorry for any mistakes in my post, for context it's 6:30am and I'm getting ready for a lecture (riding on 5 hours of sleep for a few days in a row now)

dajohnson89 7y ago
fwiw, I've had several work meetings before 9am. they weren't my favorite thing in the world, but i didn't have a choice
- devilmoon 7y ago
  The difference being that those meetings were a one-off or at the very least a rare occurrence. University,on the other hand, is a daily commitment for several years (meaning that it can also lead to chronic sleep deprivation)
j9461701 7y ago
What I hated even more about 8 am lectures is I lived an hour and a half away from the university, so from the time I left the house to the time I got home again took like 13 hours every day. And the real knife in my guts is I was paying for the privilege of this. Now I work from home, and saunter in to work at 8 in my pajamas with a bowl of fruit loops. I put in my 8 hours of work, and then I walk 3 feet to my left and flop down on my couch and start playing video games. And they pay me for this! Universities are so damn dysfunctional.
Hitton 7y ago
36 hours a week from 8am to 6pm means that you have approximately 2 hours between lectures each day to do your assignments. Sure, it isn't suited to having part time job or much free time, but from my experience it sounds like pretty normal uni routine and no one I know complained. And I warn you, when you are older it isn't going to be any better, just instead of assignments you have to take care of kids.
- germinalphrase 7y ago
  True fact. Having a baby has helped enforce boundaries on my work schedule (which had been routinely 50-60 a week); however, I am as busy as ever.

jsanl 7y ago

This is especially bad for teenagers as they are wired to sleep at later times in puberty (called "phase delay"). How the are you supposed to learn while being sleep deprived for basically most of your classes?

hrktb 7y ago

> convenience of the parents This is makes it feel like parents are a lazy self-centric bunch. Most parents are bound by their work hours, as a society we haven’t accept yet that normal people should have flexible hours or we can’t all be at home parents. School time is just an effect of that outer context.

driverdan 7y ago

This had a huge impact on me in grade school. From 7-12th grade (middle and high school in the US) I routinely got around 6h of sleep during school nights. I was constantly tired. Combined with ADHD-I I had a really hard time focusing. Looking back at it I would have done much better if I had 8h of sleep.

rootusrootus 7y ago

Public school scheduling is a hard nut to crack. But I don't recall that it has gotten any worse recently, it's always been somebody suffering a very early schedule. There are only so many buses, so many parents to drive their kids, and almost everyone has to be at work first thing in the morning, etc.