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In the last week, HK police vehicles have been singled out, ambushed, officers mobbed and attacked with molotov cocktails. Rioters are shot in self protection.

In the last week, HK police vehicles have been singled out, ambushed, officers mobbed and attacked with molotov cocktails. Rioters are shot in self protection. Mainland owned stores are targeted when police are not near. All aided by this app that is facilitating extreme violence on the ground. Of course this doesn't add up to western main stream media news readers who were presented with one-sided peaceful protest narrative that is further perpetuated by savvy HK social media users trying to push the same propaganda. Any news to the contrary have been heavily suppressed on western social media to the point of forming an impregnable filter bubble escalating to the bewildering responses seen here. The cognitive dissonance is strong. The entire controversy is couched in ridiculous language like kotowed or caved or capitulated when the simple reality is US companies have to conform to local laws and realities. I can see how people are confused, they were sold the idea that US companies are there to export morality, and now expect US companies to behave like foreign policy tools wielded for US geopolitical interests, ironically a charge frequently levied at Huawei. If China had an app that allowed US alt-right or antifa to target PoC/whatever antifa equivalent owned stores and attack the police, it would be pulled in a heart beat.

cycrutchfield 7y ago
>If China had an app that allowed US alt-right or antifa to target PoC/whatever antifa equivalent owned stores and attack the police, it would be pulled in a heart beat. If you’re going to end with this sort of false equivalence, it kind of colors the rest of your argument and makes me wonder if you are being disingenuous here. I further note that you make a lot of assertions with no facts to substantiate them, and refer to news reports on Hong Kong as propaganda, so perhaps I don’t need to wonder anymore.
- dirtyid 7y ago
  It's only false equivalence to those zero familiarly of HKer/Mainlander dynamic. Which is the majority of western readers, hence their extreme susceptibility to biased reporting. >If you’re going to end with this sort of false equivalence, it kind of colors the rest of your argument and makes me wonder if you are being disingenuous here. The closest analogy to HK protestors are alt-right, they match all the hallmarks: disenfranchised, social media savvy, economically anxious youth who see their culture being displaced and their privileged being eroded by immigrant mainlanders. Rich ones come in to buy all the property, poor ones use up all the social services. These are common complaints to the mainland locust narrative - when the mainland sends their people, they're not sending their best. [1] https://www.scmp.com/article/991355/anger-mainland-visitors-escalates-locust-ad https://www.scmp.com/article/991355/anger-mainland-visitors-... A row between Hongkongers and mainlanders is reaching boiling point after internet users raised more than HK$100,000 in less than a week to finance a full-page 'anti-locust' advertisement in a Chinese-language newspaper in the city. ... Mainlanders have already crossed our bottom line,' said Yung Jhon, who refused to disclose his real name. 'Why are mainland mothers flooding in to take up resources in public hospitals, getting our benefits and social welfare? Why do mainlanders ... refuse to follow our rules and order? We can't accept that. Sounds familiar? 30 years ago, common HKer could get a low-skill industry or service job and make a comfortable living based off mainland exploitation. Then China's manufacturing growth made HK Detroit. After handover, 1 million mainland immigrants entered HK on one-way permits under family reunification plan in the last 10 years. That's 15% of the city. This culture clash is the same script causing right wing nationalism everywhere in western liberal countries. But because it's HK, and the sufferage angle plays well to western MSM, people close their eyes, pretend HK is some woke utopia, and that all those Pepes memes are innocent, because English proficient HKers who use western internet are somehow just like us in the west but also that naive. >I further note that you make a lot of assertions with no facts to substantiate them, and refer to news reports on Hong Kong as propaganda, so perhaps I don’t need to wonder anymore. Propaganda via omission. How long did it take for western news media to finally acknowledge the frequent violence happening on the ground? The racially motivated on mainland citizens and mainland connected businesses. The doxxing of police families. Why don't you do some research yourself. The fact that people here, beneficiaries of a free 5th estate somehow reliably have their opinions shaped to reflect US foreign policy positions is... interesting. It's Manufacturing Consent, Iraq WMDs all over again.
  - cycrutchfield 7y ago
    You have an incredibly condescending, disrespectful and aggressive tone, one that seems to suggest that you believe that everybody you speak with here is utterly uninformed when it comes to China. It’s not a good look, and probably does more to damage your point than if you had just argued in good faith instead.
dmitrygr 7y ago
This is all completely normal for a revolution in a region that wants to be independent. It's about time everyone recognized that that's what it is all about. Or did you truly believe that Hong Kong and everyone in it were okay ceasing to have freedom in 2047?
- dirtyid 7y ago
  I believe 0.005% of the population can't revolt against an emerging superpower. People in the west think it's 7 million protesters when the reality is 7/1400 million. It's a fringe movement rooted in (justifiable) structural dissatisfaction expressed through bigotry against the only people who can help them. Ever considered why no protesters had the idea of waving the Chinese flag and petitioning the Chinese for change? Why they target mainland people, businesses and institutions while waving imperialist flags and using imperial insults, like Chee-na? The belief in the bigotry is what makes the belief in revolution impossible. Further the combination of bigotry, instability with democracy will ruin prospects of democracy across mainland and peace across the straight. The ideal that westerners think independence is remotely in the cards and actively cheering it on because it's good popcorn is incredibly worrying. Separatism/reunification is the #1 Chinese issue since founding of CPC and a clearly articulated redline with anyone remotely familiar with the issue. The longer HK drama draws out, the greater the chance of a hot war in Taiwan in 20-30 years.
  - johnny22 7y ago
    that's only because of folks like you cheering it on.
  - tlear 7y ago
    Of course they can revolt, and the Emperor/King/Chairman can drown them in blood. HK would a be a bitch to pacify, densely populated city with a ton of diaspora all over the world that can support insurgency with money, weapons etc. port that makes it easy to smuggle stuff in. See Irish troubles for an example of how these things play out. Nobody is going quietely into the dark night. You gone have to come and take them.
acid__ 7y ago
Hey mate, meta comment, sorry to not be responding directly to the content of your comment. I noticed that your post history is almost entirely pro-China posts on the more political submissions here. It could be seen like you’re participating on HN for a political or ideological reason, which really isn’t what this site is about. I’m not trying to call you a shill or anything, just wanted to point out that there might be other forums better designed for political discussion.
- dirtyid 7y ago
  I've gotten meta-shill accusations before. My answer as before, my interest in Chinese geopolitics, architecture, lifting and podcasts. I comment on those things when they (rarely) come up and have something novel to add. Sino-US topics are just all the rage recently and I think I have useful takes on the topic compared to the default tier of "I read Bloomberg and watch Serpentza".
  - chvid 7y ago
    Hello dirtyid. A meta-comment from me. I enjoy reading what you are writing. And it is a sad tale that one have to scroll down in the bottom of hn to see it as your comments are obviously more informed (ignoring the politics) than most other here. It just goes to show than hn is not really designed to discuss things which are very divisive. And that is too bad. Because the rise of China and the comparable decline of the US is the single biggest change of our time. And it has big implictions for all things including technology.
johnny22 7y ago
protest isn't always non-violent, so that point is irrelevant to me. without being concerned for that point, your whole argument is invalid (to me)

cycrutchfield 7y ago

>If China had an app that allowed US alt-right or antifa to target PoC/whatever antifa equivalent owned stores and attack the police, it would be pulled in a heart beat. If you’re going to end with this sort of false equivalence, it kind of colors the rest of your argument and makes me wonder if you are being disingenuous here. I further note that you make a lot of assertions with no facts to substantiate them, and refer to news reports on Hong Kong as propaganda, so perhaps I don’t need to wonder anymore.

dirtyid 7y ago
It's only false equivalence to those zero familiarly of HKer/Mainlander dynamic. Which is the majority of western readers, hence their extreme susceptibility to biased reporting. >If you’re going to end with this sort of false equivalence, it kind of colors the rest of your argument and makes me wonder if you are being disingenuous here. The closest analogy to HK protestors are alt-right, they match all the hallmarks: disenfranchised, social media savvy, economically anxious youth who see their culture being displaced and their privileged being eroded by immigrant mainlanders. Rich ones come in to buy all the property, poor ones use up all the social services. These are common complaints to the mainland locust narrative - when the mainland sends their people, they're not sending their best. [1] https://www.scmp.com/article/991355/anger-mainland-visitors-escalates-locust-ad https://www.scmp.com/article/991355/anger-mainland-visitors-... A row between Hongkongers and mainlanders is reaching boiling point after internet users raised more than HK$100,000 in less than a week to finance a full-page 'anti-locust' advertisement in a Chinese-language newspaper in the city. ... Mainlanders have already crossed our bottom line,' said Yung Jhon, who refused to disclose his real name. 'Why are mainland mothers flooding in to take up resources in public hospitals, getting our benefits and social welfare? Why do mainlanders ... refuse to follow our rules and order? We can't accept that. Sounds familiar? 30 years ago, common HKer could get a low-skill industry or service job and make a comfortable living based off mainland exploitation. Then China's manufacturing growth made HK Detroit. After handover, 1 million mainland immigrants entered HK on one-way permits under family reunification plan in the last 10 years. That's 15% of the city. This culture clash is the same script causing right wing nationalism everywhere in western liberal countries. But because it's HK, and the sufferage angle plays well to western MSM, people close their eyes, pretend HK is some woke utopia, and that all those Pepes memes are innocent, because English proficient HKers who use western internet are somehow just like us in the west but also that naive. >I further note that you make a lot of assertions with no facts to substantiate them, and refer to news reports on Hong Kong as propaganda, so perhaps I don’t need to wonder anymore. Propaganda via omission. How long did it take for western news media to finally acknowledge the frequent violence happening on the ground? The racially motivated on mainland citizens and mainland connected businesses. The doxxing of police families. Why don't you do some research yourself. The fact that people here, beneficiaries of a free 5th estate somehow reliably have their opinions shaped to reflect US foreign policy positions is... interesting. It's Manufacturing Consent, Iraq WMDs all over again.
- cycrutchfield 7y ago
  You have an incredibly condescending, disrespectful and aggressive tone, one that seems to suggest that you believe that everybody you speak with here is utterly uninformed when it comes to China. It’s not a good look, and probably does more to damage your point than if you had just argued in good faith instead.

dmitrygr 7y ago

This is all completely normal for a revolution in a region that wants to be independent. It's about time everyone recognized that that's what it is all about. Or did you truly believe that Hong Kong and everyone in it were okay ceasing to have freedom in 2047?

dirtyid 7y ago
I believe 0.005% of the population can't revolt against an emerging superpower. People in the west think it's 7 million protesters when the reality is 7/1400 million. It's a fringe movement rooted in (justifiable) structural dissatisfaction expressed through bigotry against the only people who can help them. Ever considered why no protesters had the idea of waving the Chinese flag and petitioning the Chinese for change? Why they target mainland people, businesses and institutions while waving imperialist flags and using imperial insults, like Chee-na? The belief in the bigotry is what makes the belief in revolution impossible. Further the combination of bigotry, instability with democracy will ruin prospects of democracy across mainland and peace across the straight. The ideal that westerners think independence is remotely in the cards and actively cheering it on because it's good popcorn is incredibly worrying. Separatism/reunification is the #1 Chinese issue since founding of CPC and a clearly articulated redline with anyone remotely familiar with the issue. The longer HK drama draws out, the greater the chance of a hot war in Taiwan in 20-30 years.
- johnny22 7y ago
  that's only because of folks like you cheering it on.
- tlear 7y ago
  Of course they can revolt, and the Emperor/King/Chairman can drown them in blood. HK would a be a bitch to pacify, densely populated city with a ton of diaspora all over the world that can support insurgency with money, weapons etc. port that makes it easy to smuggle stuff in. See Irish troubles for an example of how these things play out. Nobody is going quietely into the dark night. You gone have to come and take them.

acid__ 7y ago

Hey mate, meta comment, sorry to not be responding directly to the content of your comment. I noticed that your post history is almost entirely pro-China posts on the more political submissions here. It could be seen like you’re participating on HN for a political or ideological reason, which really isn’t what this site is about. I’m not trying to call you a shill or anything, just wanted to point out that there might be other forums better designed for political discussion.

dirtyid 7y ago
I've gotten meta-shill accusations before. My answer as before, my interest in Chinese geopolitics, architecture, lifting and podcasts. I comment on those things when they (rarely) come up and have something novel to add. Sino-US topics are just all the rage recently and I think I have useful takes on the topic compared to the default tier of "I read Bloomberg and watch Serpentza".
- chvid 7y ago
  Hello dirtyid. A meta-comment from me. I enjoy reading what you are writing. And it is a sad tale that one have to scroll down in the bottom of hn to see it as your comments are obviously more informed (ignoring the politics) than most other here. It just goes to show than hn is not really designed to discuss things which are very divisive. And that is too bad. Because the rise of China and the comparable decline of the US is the single biggest change of our time. And it has big implictions for all things including technology.

johnny22 7y ago

protest isn't always non-violent, so that point is irrelevant to me. without being concerned for that point, your whole argument is invalid (to me)