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It's already known that iCloud in China is operated by a state-owned telecom (GCBD) see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21217920 https://news.ycombinator.c

It's already known that iCloud in China is operated by a state-owned telecom (GCBD) see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21217920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21217920 so they could use the data to track the protestors. And iPhone usages is comparatively small according to https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/china https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/china (Android 79% and iPhone 20%) Then https://hkmap.live/ https://hkmap.live/ is available as a website. So why the outcry about this? In the end, for-profit companies will do what gives them profit. You should not rely on them for anything that won't give them profits.

bgee 7y ago
> iCloud in China is operated by a state-owned telecom ... so they could use the data to track the protestors. Please stop spreading lies unless you have evidence to back up your claim. From [0]: "Apple has never made user data, whether stored on the iPhone or in iCloud, more technologically accessible to any country's government." Disclaimer: mainlander here. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21209190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21209190
- paulryanrogers 7y ago
  Is that true of the company they've contracted to manage iCloud in China?
  - bgee 7y ago
    Sorry the parent post was referring to the latter part: "so they could use the data to track the protestors"; it is a known fact that iCloud in China is managed by a Chinese company starting in 2018/01 [0]. [0] (link in Chinese): https://www.zhihu.com/question/265371940/log https://www.zhihu.com/question/265371940/log
- dannyw 7y ago
  Apple may have not, GCBD have.
blacksmith_tb 7y ago
The cynic in me agrees, but by that logic we wouldn't be surprised to find Beige Corp selling heroin or guns to schoolchildren if it "gives them profit". What stops them? Regulation is part of it, but also having at least some interest in keeping their good name...
elliekelly 7y ago
> You should not rely on them for anything that won't give them profits. You’re absolutely right and for the vast majority of companies put in this position I wouldn’t be happy about their decision but I definitely wouldn’t hold it against them. That said, if ever there were a company in the history of the world whose users are rabidly loyal enough, whose economic contributions in China are substantial enough, and with the “Fuck You Money” necessary to do what’s right when it comes to China, it’s Apple. And when you consider that Apple launched themselves into America’s living rooms with the “1984” commercial, I might even go so far as to say that Apple could have leaned in to whatever negative consequences they may have suffered as a result.
wonnage 7y ago
I'm assuming that the website still works, since it's probably the source of data for the app anyway. At the end of the day, Apple taking down the app seems like an expected outcome, and HK is outside of the great firewall, so anyone can still access the site. What's the problem?
Terretta 7y ago
The single page app at https://hkmap.live/ https://hkmap.live/ opens on iOS with a note telling you how to add it to your Home Screen. That gives you a custom app icon, which opens as a live full screen map app w/o browser chrome. This open mechanism to “sideload” what a regular user can’t tell the difference from an App Store app was the original iPhone app distribution strategy for both live and offline HTML5 apps, provided to developers before the App Store existed. It remains relatively trivial to distribute apps this way.

bgee 7y ago

> iCloud in China is operated by a state-owned telecom ... so they could use the data to track the protestors. Please stop spreading lies unless you have evidence to back up your claim. From [0]: "Apple has never made user data, whether stored on the iPhone or in iCloud, more technologically accessible to any country's government." Disclaimer: mainlander here. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21209190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21209190

paulryanrogers 7y ago
Is that true of the company they've contracted to manage iCloud in China?
- bgee 7y ago
  Sorry the parent post was referring to the latter part: "so they could use the data to track the protestors"; it is a known fact that iCloud in China is managed by a Chinese company starting in 2018/01 [0]. [0] (link in Chinese): https://www.zhihu.com/question/265371940/log https://www.zhihu.com/question/265371940/log
dannyw 7y ago
Apple may have not, GCBD have.

blacksmith_tb 7y ago

The cynic in me agrees, but by that logic we wouldn't be surprised to find Beige Corp selling heroin or guns to schoolchildren if it "gives them profit". What stops them? Regulation is part of it, but also having at least some interest in keeping their good name...

elliekelly 7y ago

> You should not rely on them for anything that won't give them profits. You’re absolutely right and for the vast majority of companies put in this position I wouldn’t be happy about their decision but I definitely wouldn’t hold it against them. That said, if ever there were a company in the history of the world whose users are rabidly loyal enough, whose economic contributions in China are substantial enough, and with the “Fuck You Money” necessary to do what’s right when it comes to China, it’s Apple. And when you consider that Apple launched themselves into America’s living rooms with the “1984” commercial, I might even go so far as to say that Apple could have leaned in to whatever negative consequences they may have suffered as a result.

wonnage 7y ago

I'm assuming that the website still works, since it's probably the source of data for the app anyway. At the end of the day, Apple taking down the app seems like an expected outcome, and HK is outside of the great firewall, so anyone can still access the site. What's the problem?

Terretta 7y ago

The single page app at https://hkmap.live/ https://hkmap.live/ opens on iOS with a note telling you how to add it to your Home Screen. That gives you a custom app icon, which opens as a live full screen map app w/o browser chrome. This open mechanism to “sideload” what a regular user can’t tell the difference from an App Store app was the original iPhone app distribution strategy for both live and offline HTML5 apps, provided to developers before the App Store existed. It remains relatively trivial to distribute apps this way.