6 ms·

I think that parallax aside, the benefit of cameras is that a much wider angle can be represented. Much like current reverse-cameras in vehicles, the camera can

I think that parallax aside, the benefit of cameras is that a much wider angle can be represented. Much like current reverse-cameras in vehicles, the camera can capture wide/ultra-wide angles of 120-170 degrees. This lets you see everything without craning for parallax. Guidelines can be overlaid for curb/parking situations on demand. Additionally, many auto companies are already augmenting their backup cameras with 360-degree stitched top-down views, which are excellent for curb-centering, etc.

bakies 7y ago
You can also curve mirrors for a wider angle, see it on trucks all the time.
- kube-system 7y ago
  Or on the passenger side mirror of any average passenger car made over the past half century or so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objects_in_mirror_are_closer_than_they_appear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objects_in_mirror_are_closer_t...
- OrwellianChild 7y ago
  The point is, switching to cameras has aerodynamic efficiencies. Mirrors are currently a necessary cost that cameras could replace to improve drag coefficients, improve fuel economy/range, etc. OP's concern was that the cameras would not provide sufficient substitution for the mirror's features. I'm arguing that wide field of view solves that problem.
  - beached_whale 7y ago
    So could another camera in the car that watches the drivers head and adjusts the view based on movements. It could also be better too as you can now be comfortable and not contorted to get a proper view(even better than adjusting the mirror). It could also be disabled to provide a stead view. With a touch screen we could stay focused on a target too. Camera's provide more options
  - raiyu 7y ago
    If you are removing mirrors to improve aerodynamic efficiency that's the same as making a 1 gallon gas tank and saying the car will have better performance because it has a better power to weight ratio. True in theory, but actual practicality near zero. We aren't racing formula1 cars on the highway, so a mirror isn't really slowing you down that much and creating drag. Especially when you think about how much surface area it occupies versus the actual car itself.
    - mrfusion 7y ago
      On the contrary: ”They can account for as much as three to six percent of the total aerodynamic drag of a car. That may not sound like a lot, but it adds up. Over the course of 200,000 miles, that could cost you as much as $2,000. A study of big trucks (with really humongous mirrors) found they can add a whopping 10 percent to drag.“ (0) https://www.cartalk.com/blogs/staff-blog/what-drag-time-get-rid-outside-mirrors https://www.cartalk.com/blogs/staff-blog/what-drag-time-get-...
      - raiyu 7y ago
        That's accounting for the higher end of the 3-6% drag. Also speed is critical, because the aerodynamic effect is exponential with speed so unless you are traveling above 80mph it's barely impacting anything. Sure if you are on the Autobahn it will be higher at 100mph+ but this is a bit of an optimistic guess on their part. Also, these car mirrors after 200,000 miles will still work. I don't know if the car "video" mirrors will be operational after 200,000 miles so the cost of replacing them can easily out run the "fuel savings" that you would expect. Lastly, there is something that car manufacturers lose when they move away from the physical world. The parallax effect is one that others have pointed out as a key benefit that would be lost, the fact that I can get a rain spot on my mirror and still see clearly, but if there is water on my rear parking camera I see nothing is something else that needs to be considered. Progress is great, but at some point you realize you are actually degrading the experience not improving it. The Tesla has a great big iPad to control the car, but guess what, it is super distracting, because there are no physical knobs to touch so anytime you change a setting you are forced to look down. Because there are no physical knobs your finger can not rest on anything so as you are driving on the road any bump or jolt moves your finger which makes it much harder to hit the key you want. This leads to more distraction. Just because you can doesn't always mean you should.
- SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
  > You can also curve mirrors for a wider angle, see it on trucks all the time. Yes, but with a wide-angle lens camera you can convert to a less distorted view in software. Or stitch together with other views.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
interfixus 7y ago
I drive buses for a living. Believe me, when reversing some 15 meter monster into a parking slot, I trust and use my mirrors more than I do the very fancy rear-view camera. A mirror I have a lifetime experience worth of knowing what is, no perceivable extra layer of processing required. A camera, not quite so, although of course it's a nice enough extra to have.
- tinus_hn 7y ago
  > A mirror I have a lifetime experience worth Which nicely explains why young people don’t have the hang ups you have.
- Piskvorrr 7y ago
  Sure, mastering the basic controls should be the first step, before ceding control to augmented systems. However, I have yet to see a mirror that will see behind the back bumper: this has already prevented a host of dangerous situations for me ("person was there, then went somewhere, where the heck are they, oh: for some reason admiring my back bumper and the pretty light that the reverse lights give out").
- 83 7y ago
  If "I have a lifetime of experience with this so thats how it should stay" was humanities criteria for accepting new technology we'd still be bashing the neighboring tribes heads in with rocks tied to sticks.
r00fus 7y ago
I recently rented a Peugeot SUV in France and the reverse top-down view was awesome - I had to back out of a 50ft (er, 15m) narrow winding driveway and the top-down helped me to do it in a minute instead of 15 min.

bakies 7y ago

You can also curve mirrors for a wider angle, see it on trucks all the time.

kube-system 7y ago
Or on the passenger side mirror of any average passenger car made over the past half century or so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objects_in_mirror_are_closer_than_they_appear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objects_in_mirror_are_closer_t...
OrwellianChild 7y ago
The point is, switching to cameras has aerodynamic efficiencies. Mirrors are currently a necessary cost that cameras could replace to improve drag coefficients, improve fuel economy/range, etc. OP's concern was that the cameras would not provide sufficient substitution for the mirror's features. I'm arguing that wide field of view solves that problem.
- beached_whale 7y ago
  So could another camera in the car that watches the drivers head and adjusts the view based on movements. It could also be better too as you can now be comfortable and not contorted to get a proper view(even better than adjusting the mirror). It could also be disabled to provide a stead view. With a touch screen we could stay focused on a target too. Camera's provide more options
- raiyu 7y ago
  If you are removing mirrors to improve aerodynamic efficiency that's the same as making a 1 gallon gas tank and saying the car will have better performance because it has a better power to weight ratio. True in theory, but actual practicality near zero. We aren't racing formula1 cars on the highway, so a mirror isn't really slowing you down that much and creating drag. Especially when you think about how much surface area it occupies versus the actual car itself.
  - mrfusion 7y ago
    On the contrary: ”They can account for as much as three to six percent of the total aerodynamic drag of a car. That may not sound like a lot, but it adds up. Over the course of 200,000 miles, that could cost you as much as $2,000. A study of big trucks (with really humongous mirrors) found they can add a whopping 10 percent to drag.“ (0) https://www.cartalk.com/blogs/staff-blog/what-drag-time-get-rid-outside-mirrors https://www.cartalk.com/blogs/staff-blog/what-drag-time-get-...
    - raiyu 7y ago
      That's accounting for the higher end of the 3-6% drag. Also speed is critical, because the aerodynamic effect is exponential with speed so unless you are traveling above 80mph it's barely impacting anything. Sure if you are on the Autobahn it will be higher at 100mph+ but this is a bit of an optimistic guess on their part. Also, these car mirrors after 200,000 miles will still work. I don't know if the car "video" mirrors will be operational after 200,000 miles so the cost of replacing them can easily out run the "fuel savings" that you would expect. Lastly, there is something that car manufacturers lose when they move away from the physical world. The parallax effect is one that others have pointed out as a key benefit that would be lost, the fact that I can get a rain spot on my mirror and still see clearly, but if there is water on my rear parking camera I see nothing is something else that needs to be considered. Progress is great, but at some point you realize you are actually degrading the experience not improving it. The Tesla has a great big iPad to control the car, but guess what, it is super distracting, because there are no physical knobs to touch so anytime you change a setting you are forced to look down. Because there are no physical knobs your finger can not rest on anything so as you are driving on the road any bump or jolt moves your finger which makes it much harder to hit the key you want. This leads to more distraction. Just because you can doesn't always mean you should.
SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
> You can also curve mirrors for a wider angle, see it on trucks all the time. Yes, but with a wide-angle lens camera you can convert to a less distorted view in software. Or stitch together with other views.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

interfixus 7y ago

I drive buses for a living. Believe me, when reversing some 15 meter monster into a parking slot, I trust and use my mirrors more than I do the very fancy rear-view camera. A mirror I have a lifetime experience worth of knowing what is, no perceivable extra layer of processing required. A camera, not quite so, although of course it's a nice enough extra to have.

tinus_hn 7y ago
> A mirror I have a lifetime experience worth Which nicely explains why young people don’t have the hang ups you have.
Piskvorrr 7y ago
Sure, mastering the basic controls should be the first step, before ceding control to augmented systems. However, I have yet to see a mirror that will see behind the back bumper: this has already prevented a host of dangerous situations for me ("person was there, then went somewhere, where the heck are they, oh: for some reason admiring my back bumper and the pretty light that the reverse lights give out").
83 7y ago
If "I have a lifetime of experience with this so thats how it should stay" was humanities criteria for accepting new technology we'd still be bashing the neighboring tribes heads in with rocks tied to sticks.

r00fus 7y ago

I recently rented a Peugeot SUV in France and the reverse top-down view was awesome - I had to back out of a 50ft (er, 15m) narrow winding driveway and the top-down helped me to do it in a minute instead of 15 min.