6 ms·

Despite having a lower quality than before since a few years, Windows has login and locking features that actually work (and I don't even really remember of bug

by temac 7y ago

Despite having a lower quality than before since a few years, Windows has login and locking features that actually work (and I don't even really remember of bugs in there, like ever), so no, from what you describe it does not feel like Windows at all, it feels like some completely broken crap.

extrapickles 7y ago
There were some good bugs in the login part of windows 2000/XP. Most of the ones I know of involve opening a browser while still on the login screen (my favorite was in the help for the screen reader), which is running as the System user that has complete control over the system.
- Lutzb 7y ago
  IRC this was only possible on windows 95 and maybe 98.
  - jl6 7y ago
    You could do this on XP too.
  - extrapickles 7y ago
    They fixed most of them somewhere around XP SP2 or SP3, where they pretty much disabled help functionality on everything on the lock screen. When Cortana was introduced, they had some issues of being able to launch the browser while the machine was still locked (though as the user that the computer was locked by). You couldn't do much as the previous bugs as the lock screen still covered everything.
als0 7y ago
While on the subject, on Linux I've also noticed that Xscreensaver (or GNOME screensaver, can't remember which) sometimes goes straight into the desktop after wakeup for a few seconds before the lock screen prompt actually appears. You can even run programs. Really bizarre and feels like this issue has been present for a while now. Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me?
- tedunangst 7y ago
  X locking is notoriously difficult.
  - dddddaviddddd 7y ago
    I run xlock on suspend rather than on resume, seems more reliable. I'm any case, locking is trivial to bypass by pressing Control-C a few times on resume to kill xorg, hence why I also start X with "startx; exit" so that this drops to the login prompt instead of the shell.
    - Liskni_si 7y ago
      I think this still isn't secure. Try "sleep 5; exit" and press C-Z. You won't be logged out. You probably want to use "exec startx" instead.
      - dddddaviddddd 7y ago
        Thank you, I took a look at my shell man page and this is very helpful.
  - als0 7y ago
    I'm interested to understand why. Is it because of the design of Xorg?
    - 13rac1 7y ago
      Yes, it's one of the reasons Wayland was created. Screensavers didn't exist when X was designed. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTI5MQ https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTI5MQ > Right now with screensavers under X it's basically capturing the input and continually redrawing over the display. > With Wayland, Kristian plans for the lock-screen to be part of the Wayland compositor. In having the compositor handle the screensaver role, it can ensure that no window can appear atop the screensaver surface, it can properly detect idling and grabs already, and has complete control over the screen. Unlike the X design, there wouldn't even need to be a screensaver "window" that's on top but the compositor could just keep painting a black screen. For those interested in a "fancy screensaver", a plug-in could be used or an out-of-process Wayland client for drawing whatever you desire.
navidkhn1 7y ago
Wouldn't know about the windows lock screen particularly, and I haven't been a windows user since Vista, but such low quality software and UX is what I remember being accustomed to during my time with windows. To be fair, it was also vista...
- ric2b 7y ago
  Windows 7 was the peak. Stable, simple to use, performant. Of course it didn't have all the features that were introduced since, but it also didn't have as bad a UX as the more recent versions.
jjoonathan 7y ago
Recent Windows login issues I've had to deal with: * Non-consensual insertion of Windows Update latency into my schedule. Often I don't mind. Sometimes, though, I really, really do. * Said updates failing but giving no indication of failure other than taking infinitely long. * Keyboard layout sometimes gets swapped back to QWERTY with no visual indication. This interacts especially poorly with stringent Active Directory 3-try-lockout policies. * Network hiccups + active directory (or something) can cause login to spin indefinitely, requiring a restart. * Login screen background occasionally changes to a random picture from my computer. Usually a wildly upscaled application resource. I haven't entirely ruled out my own clumsiness as a contributing factor, but I've also seen this in the wild, so it's at least a UX issue somewhere. None of this is as bad, in a theoretical sense, as Apple's no-password fiasco, but it has resulted in a far larger footprint on my day-to-day activity.

by temac 7y ago

extrapickles 7y ago

There were some good bugs in the login part of windows 2000/XP. Most of the ones I know of involve opening a browser while still on the login screen (my favorite was in the help for the screen reader), which is running as the System user that has complete control over the system.

Lutzb 7y ago
IRC this was only possible on windows 95 and maybe 98.
- jl6 7y ago
  You could do this on XP too.
- extrapickles 7y ago
  They fixed most of them somewhere around XP SP2 or SP3, where they pretty much disabled help functionality on everything on the lock screen. When Cortana was introduced, they had some issues of being able to launch the browser while the machine was still locked (though as the user that the computer was locked by). You couldn't do much as the previous bugs as the lock screen still covered everything.

als0 7y ago

While on the subject, on Linux I've also noticed that Xscreensaver (or GNOME screensaver, can't remember which) sometimes goes straight into the desktop after wakeup for a few seconds before the lock screen prompt actually appears. You can even run programs. Really bizarre and feels like this issue has been present for a while now. Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me?

tedunangst 7y ago
X locking is notoriously difficult.
- dddddaviddddd 7y ago
  I run xlock on suspend rather than on resume, seems more reliable. I'm any case, locking is trivial to bypass by pressing Control-C a few times on resume to kill xorg, hence why I also start X with "startx; exit" so that this drops to the login prompt instead of the shell.
  - Liskni_si 7y ago
    I think this still isn't secure. Try "sleep 5; exit" and press C-Z. You won't be logged out. You probably want to use "exec startx" instead.
    - dddddaviddddd 7y ago
      Thank you, I took a look at my shell man page and this is very helpful.
- als0 7y ago
  I'm interested to understand why. Is it because of the design of Xorg?
  - 13rac1 7y ago
    Yes, it's one of the reasons Wayland was created. Screensavers didn't exist when X was designed. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTI5MQ https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTI5MQ > Right now with screensavers under X it's basically capturing the input and continually redrawing over the display. > With Wayland, Kristian plans for the lock-screen to be part of the Wayland compositor. In having the compositor handle the screensaver role, it can ensure that no window can appear atop the screensaver surface, it can properly detect idling and grabs already, and has complete control over the screen. Unlike the X design, there wouldn't even need to be a screensaver "window" that's on top but the compositor could just keep painting a black screen. For those interested in a "fancy screensaver", a plug-in could be used or an out-of-process Wayland client for drawing whatever you desire.

navidkhn1 7y ago

Wouldn't know about the windows lock screen particularly, and I haven't been a windows user since Vista, but such low quality software and UX is what I remember being accustomed to during my time with windows. To be fair, it was also vista...

ric2b 7y ago
Windows 7 was the peak. Stable, simple to use, performant. Of course it didn't have all the features that were introduced since, but it also didn't have as bad a UX as the more recent versions.

jjoonathan 7y ago

Recent Windows login issues I've had to deal with: * Non-consensual insertion of Windows Update latency into my schedule. Often I don't mind. Sometimes, though, I really, really do. * Said updates failing but giving no indication of failure other than taking infinitely long. * Keyboard layout sometimes gets swapped back to QWERTY with no visual indication. This interacts especially poorly with stringent Active Directory 3-try-lockout policies. * Network hiccups + active directory (or something) can cause login to spin indefinitely, requiring a restart. * Login screen background occasionally changes to a random picture from my computer. Usually a wildly upscaled application resource. I haven't entirely ruled out my own clumsiness as a contributing factor, but I've also seen this in the wild, so it's at least a UX issue somewhere. None of this is as bad, in a theoretical sense, as Apple's no-password fiasco, but it has resulted in a far larger footprint on my day-to-day activity.