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That's funny: "Apple will always be a second-class citizen to Android" You don't hear about 14 million iPhones being infected by malware[0], do you? Or malwar

That's funny: "Apple will always be a second-class citizen to Android" You don't hear about 14 million iPhones being infected by malware[0], do you? Or malware stealing users' bank credentials[1]? Heck, there are people whose brand new phone comes pre-loaded with malware[2]. Oh, this one was just posted five hours ago -- applications on the Google Play store load with trojans and spyware[3]. I can keep going, but the point is: if any platform is "second-class", it's Android by far. I'll pick the one that doesn't have apps on its official App Store rooting my phone and installing spyware. [0] https://www.zdnet.com/article/copycat-android-malware-infected-14m-devices-rooted-8m-last-year/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/copycat-android-malware-infect... [1] https://android.gadgethacks.com/news/new-android-malware-is-emptying-peoples-bank-accounts-heres-protect-yourself-0175539/ https://android.gadgethacks.com/news/new-android-malware-is-... [2] https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/206574/how-to-remove-a-persistent-malware-that-downloads-unwanted-apps https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/206574/how-to-re... [3] https://www.zdnet.com/article/gaming-photo-apps-in-google-play-infect-android-handsets-with-malware/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/gaming-photo-apps-in-google-pl...

braythwayt 7y ago
This argument reminds me of the gun control argument. People in favour of "more guns" are fully aware that more guns means a more dangerous society. But they consider the freedom to choose whether to own guns more important than living in a statistically safer society. Whereas, people in favour of "gun control" consider the safety of society overall to be much more important than the freedom to own devices designed to kill people. To me, that's what Android vs iPhone represents with respect to freedom. Android gives you more freedom to choose different devices, but at the cost of most devices not getting security and OS updates. Likewise, Android gives you the freedom to side-load all kinds of things onto your devices, and of course the Android ecosystem is chock-full of malware. The proponent of freedom says, "Yes, I understand that this is a much more dangerous ecosystem, but I value the freedom to defend myself." The proponent of safety says, "There are some dangers that are best met by a centralized, platform defence, not by individuals." Philosophically, I understand both arguments, even if I am very clearly in one of the two camps with no interest whatsoever in switching to the other.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  Apart from the fact that an Android that has side-loaded malware probably(1) won't shoot five innocent bystanders, I think this is a good analogy. (1) Probably. It's an open source OS, so no telling categorically what hardware it's driving ;)
  - judge2020 7y ago
    Wait for a kickstarter for a phone-gun hybrid with a "shoot" button available to the phone.
- aianus 7y ago
  This also mirrors Chinese vs. American values perfectly. The Chinese believe in the Apple model of safety, greater good, social harmony, and the ends justifying the means over individual liberties. The concentration camps, great firewall, IP theft, everything we see as dysfunctional about China stems from this belief system. Americans don't believe in the "greater good" or "the ends justify the means" and it results in uniquely American dysfunctions like mass shootings and homeless people shitting in the street in SF. Still, like you, I have no interest in switching to the other camp. It is a basic value system ingrained in me.
  - moogleii 7y ago
    This is a terrible generalization and greatly conflates the people and the government of China, which has been ignoring philosophers and politicians extolling such values for decades.
  - chapium 7y ago
    I'd hope that a society can believe in a collective good without resorting to concentration camps.
  - CharlesColeman 7y ago
    > This also mirrors Chinese vs. American values perfectly. > The Chinese believe in the Apple model of safety, greater good, social harmony, and the ends justifying the means over individual liberties. The concentration camps, great firewall, IP theft, everything we see as dysfunctional about China stems from this belief system. By "Chinese" do you mean the Chinese people, Chinese culture, of the Communist Party of China?
computerex 7y ago
What an incredibly weak argument. Android absolutely destroys iOS in market share, it's not even a comparison. That's why it's targeted by malware writers. That doesn't mean it's any less secure than iOS. You have to try very hard to infect your phone. I'd pick being able to run whatever I want over Apples choice of apps any day.
- amatecha 7y ago
  Popularity == better? OK :) "Try very hard" == be on a wifi network, or download an app that appears to be completely legit from the vendor's own digital distribution platform? OK :)
  - computerex 7y ago
    Popularity means that it's a bigger target for malicious software authors. https://thenextweb.com/apps/2019/10/01/google-play-android-malware-2/ https://thenextweb.com/apps/2019/10/01/google-play-android-m... > On the bright side, most of the harmful software appears to have been purged by Google. “If not all of these apps, then definitely most of them are not available on Google Play anymore,” Stefanko told TNW. This is a trade off of having an open ecosystem. I only install well reviewed and well known, quality apps so I have never had any malware on the dozens of phones I have owned over the years. I prefer having a small chance of being infected by malware by my own actions over a closed ecosystem and only being able to install what Google deems worthy on my device any day.
- colejohnson66 7y ago
  Popularity is also including the fact that more than just phones run Android
BLKNSLVR 7y ago
Exactly! I'm technical so I like tinkering and don't care a whit for Apple's locked down ecosystem and it's cost of entry, so I avoid it. But I'm totally aware of the reasons Apple make their business decisions. Their loyal fan base and easy interoperability of their products is testament to this. It has brought many technological solutions into the hands of the non-technical consumer, which has benefitted us technical folks by bringing attention to what can be achieved by technology. (I'm not crediting Apple with this in its entirety, far from it, but they brought non-technical attention to the technical arena) Anyone on HN complaining that their iDevice doesn't give them sufficient 'freedom of ownership' is willfully ignorant of Apple's well publicized and infinitely discussed closed system strategy. P.S. LineageOS for the win.
lern_too_spel 7y ago
> You don't hear about 14 million iPhones being infected by malware No, but I have heard of 400 million iPhones being infected by malware via Xcodeghost. This is serious data exfiltrating malware, not simply ad popup malware, and this is on the official app store and legitimately sourced devices unlike the malware in your first three links.

braythwayt 7y ago

This argument reminds me of the gun control argument. People in favour of "more guns" are fully aware that more guns means a more dangerous society. But they consider the freedom to choose whether to own guns more important than living in a statistically safer society. Whereas, people in favour of "gun control" consider the safety of society overall to be much more important than the freedom to own devices designed to kill people. To me, that's what Android vs iPhone represents with respect to freedom. Android gives you more freedom to choose different devices, but at the cost of most devices not getting security and OS updates. Likewise, Android gives you the freedom to side-load all kinds of things onto your devices, and of course the Android ecosystem is chock-full of malware. The proponent of freedom says, "Yes, I understand that this is a much more dangerous ecosystem, but I value the freedom to defend myself." The proponent of safety says, "There are some dangers that are best met by a centralized, platform defence, not by individuals." Philosophically, I understand both arguments, even if I am very clearly in one of the two camps with no interest whatsoever in switching to the other.

shadowgovt 7y ago
Apart from the fact that an Android that has side-loaded malware probably(1) won't shoot five innocent bystanders, I think this is a good analogy. (1) Probably. It's an open source OS, so no telling categorically what hardware it's driving ;)
- judge2020 7y ago
  Wait for a kickstarter for a phone-gun hybrid with a "shoot" button available to the phone.
aianus 7y ago
This also mirrors Chinese vs. American values perfectly. The Chinese believe in the Apple model of safety, greater good, social harmony, and the ends justifying the means over individual liberties. The concentration camps, great firewall, IP theft, everything we see as dysfunctional about China stems from this belief system. Americans don't believe in the "greater good" or "the ends justify the means" and it results in uniquely American dysfunctions like mass shootings and homeless people shitting in the street in SF. Still, like you, I have no interest in switching to the other camp. It is a basic value system ingrained in me.
- moogleii 7y ago
  This is a terrible generalization and greatly conflates the people and the government of China, which has been ignoring philosophers and politicians extolling such values for decades.
- chapium 7y ago
  I'd hope that a society can believe in a collective good without resorting to concentration camps.
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  > This also mirrors Chinese vs. American values perfectly. > The Chinese believe in the Apple model of safety, greater good, social harmony, and the ends justifying the means over individual liberties. The concentration camps, great firewall, IP theft, everything we see as dysfunctional about China stems from this belief system. By "Chinese" do you mean the Chinese people, Chinese culture, of the Communist Party of China?

computerex 7y ago

What an incredibly weak argument. Android absolutely destroys iOS in market share, it's not even a comparison. That's why it's targeted by malware writers. That doesn't mean it's any less secure than iOS. You have to try very hard to infect your phone. I'd pick being able to run whatever I want over Apples choice of apps any day.

amatecha 7y ago
Popularity == better? OK :) "Try very hard" == be on a wifi network, or download an app that appears to be completely legit from the vendor's own digital distribution platform? OK :)
- computerex 7y ago
  Popularity means that it's a bigger target for malicious software authors. https://thenextweb.com/apps/2019/10/01/google-play-android-malware-2/ https://thenextweb.com/apps/2019/10/01/google-play-android-m... > On the bright side, most of the harmful software appears to have been purged by Google. “If not all of these apps, then definitely most of them are not available on Google Play anymore,” Stefanko told TNW. This is a trade off of having an open ecosystem. I only install well reviewed and well known, quality apps so I have never had any malware on the dozens of phones I have owned over the years. I prefer having a small chance of being infected by malware by my own actions over a closed ecosystem and only being able to install what Google deems worthy on my device any day.
colejohnson66 7y ago
Popularity is also including the fact that more than just phones run Android

BLKNSLVR 7y ago

Exactly! I'm technical so I like tinkering and don't care a whit for Apple's locked down ecosystem and it's cost of entry, so I avoid it. But I'm totally aware of the reasons Apple make their business decisions. Their loyal fan base and easy interoperability of their products is testament to this. It has brought many technological solutions into the hands of the non-technical consumer, which has benefitted us technical folks by bringing attention to what can be achieved by technology. (I'm not crediting Apple with this in its entirety, far from it, but they brought non-technical attention to the technical arena) Anyone on HN complaining that their iDevice doesn't give them sufficient 'freedom of ownership' is willfully ignorant of Apple's well publicized and infinitely discussed closed system strategy. P.S. LineageOS for the win.

lern_too_spel 7y ago

> You don't hear about 14 million iPhones being infected by malware No, but I have heard of 400 million iPhones being infected by malware via Xcodeghost. This is serious data exfiltrating malware, not simply ad popup malware, and this is on the official app store and legitimately sourced devices unlike the malware in your first three links.