5 ms·

Most Wi-Fi blobs are not blob drivers, they're firmware that runs on the Wi-Fi card. For Intel Wi-Fi, FreeBSD includes the firmware out-of-the-box, many Linux

Most Wi-Fi blobs are not blob drivers, they're firmware that runs on the Wi-Fi card. For Intel Wi-Fi, FreeBSD includes the firmware out-of-the-box, many Linux distros do the same I'm sure.

isantop 7y ago
Yeah, the actual Intel WiFi driver is afiak open source. It's the firmware that's not.
awinter-py 7y ago
wait what's the difference? driver runs in kernel, firmware runs in card?
- Avery3R 7y ago
  Yeah
  - awinter-py 7y ago
    are there tools for parsing the firmware bin? are they a threat vector? is it like a settings file?
    - yellowapple 7y ago
      > are there tools for parsing the firmware bin? Besides a hex editor, probably not. > are they a threat vector? As much as any other opaque software (i.e. not FOSS or otherwise transparent around source code auditing by arbitrary third parties). That is, in short: yes. > is it like a settings file? No, it's more like the operating system for the wireless card itself, running on the card's own microprocessor.
    - Skunkleton 7y ago
      Every modern computer has many independent processors, and they all need to execute software from somewhere. Many of these independent processors load their software from some sort of onboard memory, others rely on the main processor to load their software. The second case is what these blobs are for the most part.
    - allset_ 7y ago
      >are there tools for parsing the firmware bin? Binwalk, IDA pro, etc. All the normal reverse engineering tools. >are they a threat vector? Absolutely. >is it like a settings file? No, it's code executing on the WiFi card.
- akeck 7y ago
  I think it is, or includes, the baseband firmware for the actual wifi radio. I believe, but I'm not 100% sure, that the FCC has specific restrictions on how baseband radio firmware gets distributed.
  - madez 7y ago
    You, and everyone else for that matter, can go and buy a software defined radio (SDR) and play with a radio to your hearts liking. If there is a restriction on redistribution of open down to the radio firmware WiFi devices, then it's dumb. If there is none, please don't spread incorrect speculation that there is.
    - ac29 7y ago
      > You, and everyone else for that matter, can go and buy a software defined radio (SDR) and play with a radio to your hearts liking. You almost certainly cant transmit legally, though (unless you have a amateur radio license, which lets you do all sorts of stuff with useful amounts of power).
      - tpearson-raptor 7y ago
        That depends heavily on where you're transmitting (i.e what frequency and bandwidth you use) along with the power you're transmitting at. First, as a ham radio operator, no, you can't just go and start blasting away from an SDR even in the ham bands. You have to follow strict rules, including a non-commercial content rule and you must not use encryption. The ham bands are for people to experiment with new radio technologies and more importantly communicate with one another using those technologies on a hobbyist level -- encryption and commercial use does not help those goals. That being said, there are chunks of radio spectrum that are effectively "public domain" where you can transmit within certain ERP (effective radiated power) limits without the ham band restrictions on content, protocol, etc. Traditional WiFi lives in one -- the block set aside for microwave cooking devices, and therefore with a near-unusable noise floor for anything but short range communication like household WiFi.
    - 7y ago

Most Wi-Fi blobs are not blob drivers, they're firmware that runs on the Wi-Fi card. For Intel Wi-Fi, FreeBSD includes the firmware out-of-the-box, many Linux distros do the same I'm sure.

isantop 7y ago

Yeah, the actual Intel WiFi driver is afiak open source. It's the firmware that's not.

awinter-py 7y ago

wait what's the difference? driver runs in kernel, firmware runs in card?

Avery3R 7y ago
Yeah
- awinter-py 7y ago
  are there tools for parsing the firmware bin? are they a threat vector? is it like a settings file?
  - yellowapple 7y ago
    > are there tools for parsing the firmware bin? Besides a hex editor, probably not. > are they a threat vector? As much as any other opaque software (i.e. not FOSS or otherwise transparent around source code auditing by arbitrary third parties). That is, in short: yes. > is it like a settings file? No, it's more like the operating system for the wireless card itself, running on the card's own microprocessor.
  - Skunkleton 7y ago
    Every modern computer has many independent processors, and they all need to execute software from somewhere. Many of these independent processors load their software from some sort of onboard memory, others rely on the main processor to load their software. The second case is what these blobs are for the most part.
  - allset_ 7y ago
    >are there tools for parsing the firmware bin? Binwalk, IDA pro, etc. All the normal reverse engineering tools. >are they a threat vector? Absolutely. >is it like a settings file? No, it's code executing on the WiFi card.
akeck 7y ago
I think it is, or includes, the baseband firmware for the actual wifi radio. I believe, but I'm not 100% sure, that the FCC has specific restrictions on how baseband radio firmware gets distributed.
- madez 7y ago
  You, and everyone else for that matter, can go and buy a software defined radio (SDR) and play with a radio to your hearts liking. If there is a restriction on redistribution of open down to the radio firmware WiFi devices, then it's dumb. If there is none, please don't spread incorrect speculation that there is.
  - ac29 7y ago
    > You, and everyone else for that matter, can go and buy a software defined radio (SDR) and play with a radio to your hearts liking. You almost certainly cant transmit legally, though (unless you have a amateur radio license, which lets you do all sorts of stuff with useful amounts of power).
    - tpearson-raptor 7y ago
      That depends heavily on where you're transmitting (i.e what frequency and bandwidth you use) along with the power you're transmitting at. First, as a ham radio operator, no, you can't just go and start blasting away from an SDR even in the ham bands. You have to follow strict rules, including a non-commercial content rule and you must not use encryption. The ham bands are for people to experiment with new radio technologies and more importantly communicate with one another using those technologies on a hobbyist level -- encryption and commercial use does not help those goals. That being said, there are chunks of radio spectrum that are effectively "public domain" where you can transmit within certain ERP (effective radiated power) limits without the ham band restrictions on content, protocol, etc. Traditional WiFi lives in one -- the block set aside for microwave cooking devices, and therefore with a near-unusable noise floor for anything but short range communication like household WiFi.
  - 7y ago