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Every single thing you just wrote applies to both sides of any political issue. That's politics: you get out there and advocate for a position and then people t

Every single thing you just wrote applies to both sides of any political issue. That's politics: you get out there and advocate for a position and then people turn up and vote (or not). People being convinced to vote for something is not a sign that their vote is somehow invalid. It's literally how the political process works.

ceejayoz 7y ago
> People being convinced to vote for something is not a sign that their vote is somehow invalid. Not inherently, but being convinced of falsehoods by a propaganda campaign should be of concern. If you voted for McCain because you believe Republicans have better tax policies than Democrats, I'm fine with that. If you did it because you believe Obama's a secret Muslim infiltrator from Kenya, I'm not.
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  Both sides have a contingent of voters who aren't voting from a place of cool-headed informed rationality. Thinking that your own side is somehow immune from this is blinkered partisan thinking.
frobozz 7y ago
People being convinced by reasoned argument, and perhaps by skilled oratory is how the political process works. People being convinced by outright lies is not how democracy works. If one side can gain the advantage by telling people that the other side currently forbids them buying four bananas at a time, and be believed, even given the extremely obvious evidence against it, then the system is broken.
- cgiles 7y ago
  > People being convinced by reasoned argument, and perhaps by skilled oratory is how the political process works. In utopia. But in reality, it is possible to simultaneously hold that many people vote for very stupid reasons, and that their votes should be respected anyway. Personally I am convinced that there never has been an election anywhere where the majority of voters on all sides were properly informed by facts and not motivated by ideology or outright lies. Some in the UK imply that the referendum should be re-run because of those lies, just like some in the US imply the 2016 election was illegitimate because of Russian interference. That way lies madness, since every side in every election lies and manipulates, and every election would have to be re-run ad infinitum.

ceejayoz 7y ago

> People being convinced to vote for something is not a sign that their vote is somehow invalid. Not inherently, but being convinced of falsehoods by a propaganda campaign should be of concern. If you voted for McCain because you believe Republicans have better tax policies than Democrats, I'm fine with that. If you did it because you believe Obama's a secret Muslim infiltrator from Kenya, I'm not.

toasterlovin 7y ago
Both sides have a contingent of voters who aren't voting from a place of cool-headed informed rationality. Thinking that your own side is somehow immune from this is blinkered partisan thinking.

frobozz 7y ago

People being convinced by reasoned argument, and perhaps by skilled oratory is how the political process works. People being convinced by outright lies is not how democracy works. If one side can gain the advantage by telling people that the other side currently forbids them buying four bananas at a time, and be believed, even given the extremely obvious evidence against it, then the system is broken.

cgiles 7y ago
> People being convinced by reasoned argument, and perhaps by skilled oratory is how the political process works. In utopia. But in reality, it is possible to simultaneously hold that many people vote for very stupid reasons, and that their votes should be respected anyway. Personally I am convinced that there never has been an election anywhere where the majority of voters on all sides were properly informed by facts and not motivated by ideology or outright lies. Some in the UK imply that the referendum should be re-run because of those lies, just like some in the US imply the 2016 election was illegitimate because of Russian interference. That way lies madness, since every side in every election lies and manipulates, and every election would have to be re-run ad infinitum.