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From a previous FOIA request[1] explaining the logo: "The secret origin of the patch is initially from [redacted] where the problem during the test stage in th

From a previous FOIA request[1] explaining the logo: "The secret origin of the patch is initially from [redacted] where the problem during the test stage in the thermal vacuum was traced to a large piece of cabling called an octopus harness. The running joke for the crew was that the octopus harness had taken over the world." [1] http://www.paglen.com/download/octopus.pdf http://www.paglen.com/download/octopus.pdf

deleted 7y ago
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Rebelgecko 7y ago
Apparently some NRO folks got smacked down on another mission when they tried to use a quote from the Ricky Bobbie movie as the slogan "If you ain't first, you're last" https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/records-concerning-the-nrol-76-logo-37622/#file-154942 https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/rec...
- lovehashbrowns 7y ago
  Ha, yup you're right! They even tried to preemptively get around that by putting it in Latin, but that failed. Quote: I have the solution: "si non primus es novissimi". It is Latin and roughly translates to "If you ain't first, you're last" according to Google Translator. Someone can check this translation, but it should solve the copyright issue since Ricky Bobby doesn't speak latin. It will also be more mysterious for the average, non-latin literate observer. This Latin approach has worked before and allowed one of my previous organizations to have the slogan "Doing God's work with other people's money" fly right through the approval process.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    > It is Latin and roughly translates to "If you ain't first, you're last" according to Google Translator. Google translate is not up to the task of translating more than an isolated word without serious errors. I can't actually check your translation, but I can point out some issues: - The verb, es, and the word "first", primus, are both singular. They match! And they're supposed to. But novissimi is plural. In the sentence as given, novissimi plays no role, much like the "cabbage" in the sentence "this sentence contains cabbage six words". - Novissimi means, literally, "newest". (Heck, it doesn't just mean "newest", the two words are etymologically identical.) It does metaphorically refer to the rear of something, since the back of the army is where the least experienced (newest) troops get placed. A better word for "last" would probably be postremus, meaning literally "last" and metaphorically "worst". - There's only one verb. (Compare "if you're not first, you're last".) That isn't the problem in Latin that it would be in English, but I flag it because the final two issues require careful thinking about what verb to use where... - This is a conditional statement using a present indicative verb. The strong implication is present that, as described, you really aren't first. If the statement was meant to be hypothetical or counterfactual, you'd probably use subjunctive mood. - I cannot guarantee that the concept "to be first" is best expressed by combining the verb "to be" with the adjective "first", as you've done here. It's quite possible that there's a verb that describes winning a race or a competition or whatever, and that verb would be a more idiomatic way of expressing this meaning. I have no knowledge of whether that's actually true, but it's the kind of thing that comes up a lot when you're trying to translate between languages. (This sort of thing is why it's much safer to translate things into your native language than out of your native language, even if you have near-perfect command of the other language.) English is very free with "be + adjective" constructions; many languages are more prone to specialized verbs. (Compare the Latin verb rubere, "to be red". Expressing the concept as ruber esse, "to be" + "red (adj.)" is an error.)
    - Rebelgecko 7y ago
      Interestingly, I just plugged it into Google Translate and got a somewhat different translation that makes more sense to me (granted my Latin is a bit rusty): si non prius, postremo te
    - hnburnsy 7y ago
      Your correction reminds me on Monty Python Life of Brian, ROMANES EUNT DOMUS.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Apparently they also got into trouble because of the menacing look of NROL-39. Quoting from page 17 of the document you linked: "[redacted] said after the octopus logo, the White House threatened to require presidential approval if the NRO approved any more menacing logos."
  - deep-root 7y ago
    Perhaps as it was during the 2013 period when US security agencies were in the spotlight. Here is Jon Stewart Daily Show on this exact logo.[1] (US-only video, here is the NSFW-ish punchline [2]). NROL-10 launched in 2000 with an almost Miyazaki-esque logo designed by school children.[3] Most of the mission logos seem to be in jest, or more recently Marvel Avengers-based. [1] http://www.cc.com/video-clips/wnciaf/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-that-thing-they-said-they-re-not-doing--they-re-totally-doing http://www.cc.com/video-clips/wnciaf/the-daily-show-with-jon... [2] https://kotaku.com/john-stewart-claims-responsibility-for-perverted-anime-1480977777/ https://kotaku.com/john-stewart-claims-responsibility-for-pe... [3] https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NROL-10_Mission_Patch.png https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NROL-10_Mission_Pa...
- tinus_hn 7y ago
  I don’t think there’s copyright on a short, generic phrase like that.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Rebelgecko 7y ago

Apparently some NRO folks got smacked down on another mission when they tried to use a quote from the Ricky Bobbie movie as the slogan "If you ain't first, you're last" https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/records-concerning-the-nrol-76-logo-37622/#file-154942 https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/rec...

lovehashbrowns 7y ago
Ha, yup you're right! They even tried to preemptively get around that by putting it in Latin, but that failed. Quote: I have the solution: "si non primus es novissimi". It is Latin and roughly translates to "If you ain't first, you're last" according to Google Translator. Someone can check this translation, but it should solve the copyright issue since Ricky Bobby doesn't speak latin. It will also be more mysterious for the average, non-latin literate observer. This Latin approach has worked before and allowed one of my previous organizations to have the slogan "Doing God's work with other people's money" fly right through the approval process.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  > It is Latin and roughly translates to "If you ain't first, you're last" according to Google Translator. Google translate is not up to the task of translating more than an isolated word without serious errors. I can't actually check your translation, but I can point out some issues: - The verb, es, and the word "first", primus, are both singular. They match! And they're supposed to. But novissimi is plural. In the sentence as given, novissimi plays no role, much like the "cabbage" in the sentence "this sentence contains cabbage six words". - Novissimi means, literally, "newest". (Heck, it doesn't just mean "newest", the two words are etymologically identical.) It does metaphorically refer to the rear of something, since the back of the army is where the least experienced (newest) troops get placed. A better word for "last" would probably be postremus, meaning literally "last" and metaphorically "worst". - There's only one verb. (Compare "if you're not first, you're last".) That isn't the problem in Latin that it would be in English, but I flag it because the final two issues require careful thinking about what verb to use where... - This is a conditional statement using a present indicative verb. The strong implication is present that, as described, you really aren't first. If the statement was meant to be hypothetical or counterfactual, you'd probably use subjunctive mood. - I cannot guarantee that the concept "to be first" is best expressed by combining the verb "to be" with the adjective "first", as you've done here. It's quite possible that there's a verb that describes winning a race or a competition or whatever, and that verb would be a more idiomatic way of expressing this meaning. I have no knowledge of whether that's actually true, but it's the kind of thing that comes up a lot when you're trying to translate between languages. (This sort of thing is why it's much safer to translate things into your native language than out of your native language, even if you have near-perfect command of the other language.) English is very free with "be + adjective" constructions; many languages are more prone to specialized verbs. (Compare the Latin verb rubere, "to be red". Expressing the concept as ruber esse, "to be" + "red (adj.)" is an error.)
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    Interestingly, I just plugged it into Google Translate and got a somewhat different translation that makes more sense to me (granted my Latin is a bit rusty): si non prius, postremo te
  - hnburnsy 7y ago
    Your correction reminds me on Monty Python Life of Brian, ROMANES EUNT DOMUS.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
Apparently they also got into trouble because of the menacing look of NROL-39. Quoting from page 17 of the document you linked: "[redacted] said after the octopus logo, the White House threatened to require presidential approval if the NRO approved any more menacing logos."
- deep-root 7y ago
  Perhaps as it was during the 2013 period when US security agencies were in the spotlight. Here is Jon Stewart Daily Show on this exact logo.[1] (US-only video, here is the NSFW-ish punchline [2]). NROL-10 launched in 2000 with an almost Miyazaki-esque logo designed by school children.[3] Most of the mission logos seem to be in jest, or more recently Marvel Avengers-based. [1] http://www.cc.com/video-clips/wnciaf/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-that-thing-they-said-they-re-not-doing--they-re-totally-doing http://www.cc.com/video-clips/wnciaf/the-daily-show-with-jon... [2] https://kotaku.com/john-stewart-claims-responsibility-for-perverted-anime-1480977777/ https://kotaku.com/john-stewart-claims-responsibility-for-pe... [3] https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NROL-10_Mission_Patch.png https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NROL-10_Mission_Pa...
tinus_hn 7y ago
I don’t think there’s copyright on a short, generic phrase like that.