6 ms·

We should do whatever we can to preserve the coral reefs, but as usual, cataclysmic forecasts from scientists proved to be wrong yet again, and nature is a lot

We should do whatever we can to preserve the coral reefs, but as usual, cataclysmic forecasts from scientists proved to be wrong yet again, and nature is a lot more resilient than expected. Put me firmly in the camp of "we need to protect the environment at all costs" (ex. I believe that companies that pollute our waters should get shut down, I believe boats that produce massive amounts of pollution should be sunk by our navy, etc), but I also tend to no longer believe the click-bait headlines that our entire society is rife with. These headlines produced by journalists, not scientists, are the information that gets propagated and that is poisoning our society with misinformation.

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[deleted]
gdubs 7y ago
Well, maybe we should also read beyond headlines — because this article offers a glimmer of hope, but no guarantee that the world’s reefs will bounce back from the very real damage they’re being subjected to.
- throwaway5752 7y ago
  Yes, exactly. It's like nobody read to the end of the article: "For sure, it's good news, but what we are seeing now in the Mediterranean Sea and other parts of the world is that these marine heat waves are recurrent—happening every summer or every second summer," Kersting said. These corals also grow very slowly—at a rate of about 3 millimeters a year—"so if you are having every second summer a heat wave, and it's killing 10 to 15 percent of the cover, I mean, the numbers are clear," he added. "They actually need help from us. We need to stop climate change, because it's not going to be enough." Global warming is just starting. Ocean temperatures are on an uptrend. If every human being disappeared right now, temperature would increase for decades.
  - WilTimSon 7y ago
    Even those who read the full article tend to gloss over the very real consequences that are being promised. It's part of people's nature to just try and suppress issues as long as possible because, hey, there's a marginally good thing happening, it's impossible for a bad thing to be happening as well, right? Depressing but it's not unusual when the news is a constant stream of darkness.
throwaway5752 7y ago
"We should do whatever we can to preserve the coral reefs, but as usual, cataclysmic forecasts from scientists proved to be wrong yet again, and nature is a lot more resilient than expected." Yet again, someone falsely ascribes views to scientists that they never had. I keep track of this stuff, and I don't know what forecasts you are talking about. Actual forecasts (ipcc reports), if anything have been overly conservative. And they are grim. There is active research as to why they are overly conservative and reality is proceeding worse than the already grim forecasts.
- cagenut 7y ago
  this is how the reactionary mind works. the problem isn't the problem. the problem is how THOSE PEOPLE reacted to the problem such that now I, THE REASONABLE AND INFORMED ADULT MODERATE, must now devils-advocate (aka advocate) for the problem.
  - dmix 7y ago
    People just love kicking down anything or anyone popular. But just because that is an automatic human reaction, as you mention from some "I'm smart and know better" than other people, for some emotional high, that also applies to the extremists who push it hard on both ends with the same "I know better" motivations. Often at a much higher and frequent degree. You could make a good argument that the moderates are often the lessers of evils and the most frequently right, just as long as we stay aware of their own weaknesses as motivation killers or overly compromising middle ground that can sometimes be the worse of the three generalized positions (sometimes doing nothing is better than something for the sake of appeasing the loudest voices, which one could argue is not true moderation). Regardless these meta discussions only have so much value and are always a massive distraction.
    - throwaway5752 7y ago
      At our core, we are socially uncomplicated. We exhibit swarm behavior and calibrate ourselves based on our nearest neighbors (or, in a more complicated way, how social media can be used to distort our views). This is how the Overton Window works, it's why there's a bias towards appearing as a moderate. It's a good heuristic, it's just wrong in the case of our climate situation.
sd8f9iu 7y ago
How does this at all prove the "cataclysmic forecasts from scientists" — namely, that climate change will destroy the reefs — wrong? The scientist responsible for this study himself says, "We need to stop climate change, because it's not going to be enough," i.e. this discovery doesn't chance the broad forecast at all.
- repolfx 7y ago
  The headline itself explains it: what happened to the corals was previously stated to be fatal. But it turns out not to be fatal. That's a miss and raises questions about whether the new predictions at the bottom of the article are also wrong.
  - saalweachter 7y ago
    People survive gunshots to the head and chest, falls from high heights, heart attacks and smallpox. Most things that are reasonably described as "fatal" aren't actually death sentences; well, no more than actual death sentences, for which reprieves are granted all the time. Doesn't make them good, or even particularly less bad.
mythrwy 7y ago
Like this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7139797.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7139797.stm Pardon me at this point for disbelieving in the ability to accurately model very complex systems. And no, our technology has not suddenly achieved this magical ability in the last 30 years.
eranima 7y ago
> but as usual, cataclysmic forecasts from scientists This is a really dangerous mindset.

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gdubs 7y ago

Well, maybe we should also read beyond headlines — because this article offers a glimmer of hope, but no guarantee that the world’s reefs will bounce back from the very real damage they’re being subjected to.

throwaway5752 7y ago
Yes, exactly. It's like nobody read to the end of the article: "For sure, it's good news, but what we are seeing now in the Mediterranean Sea and other parts of the world is that these marine heat waves are recurrent—happening every summer or every second summer," Kersting said. These corals also grow very slowly—at a rate of about 3 millimeters a year—"so if you are having every second summer a heat wave, and it's killing 10 to 15 percent of the cover, I mean, the numbers are clear," he added. "They actually need help from us. We need to stop climate change, because it's not going to be enough." Global warming is just starting. Ocean temperatures are on an uptrend. If every human being disappeared right now, temperature would increase for decades.
- WilTimSon 7y ago
  Even those who read the full article tend to gloss over the very real consequences that are being promised. It's part of people's nature to just try and suppress issues as long as possible because, hey, there's a marginally good thing happening, it's impossible for a bad thing to be happening as well, right? Depressing but it's not unusual when the news is a constant stream of darkness.

throwaway5752 7y ago

"We should do whatever we can to preserve the coral reefs, but as usual, cataclysmic forecasts from scientists proved to be wrong yet again, and nature is a lot more resilient than expected." Yet again, someone falsely ascribes views to scientists that they never had. I keep track of this stuff, and I don't know what forecasts you are talking about. Actual forecasts (ipcc reports), if anything have been overly conservative. And they are grim. There is active research as to why they are overly conservative and reality is proceeding worse than the already grim forecasts.

cagenut 7y ago
this is how the reactionary mind works. the problem isn't the problem. the problem is how THOSE PEOPLE reacted to the problem such that now I, THE REASONABLE AND INFORMED ADULT MODERATE, must now devils-advocate (aka advocate) for the problem.
- dmix 7y ago
  People just love kicking down anything or anyone popular. But just because that is an automatic human reaction, as you mention from some "I'm smart and know better" than other people, for some emotional high, that also applies to the extremists who push it hard on both ends with the same "I know better" motivations. Often at a much higher and frequent degree. You could make a good argument that the moderates are often the lessers of evils and the most frequently right, just as long as we stay aware of their own weaknesses as motivation killers or overly compromising middle ground that can sometimes be the worse of the three generalized positions (sometimes doing nothing is better than something for the sake of appeasing the loudest voices, which one could argue is not true moderation). Regardless these meta discussions only have so much value and are always a massive distraction.
  - throwaway5752 7y ago
    At our core, we are socially uncomplicated. We exhibit swarm behavior and calibrate ourselves based on our nearest neighbors (or, in a more complicated way, how social media can be used to distort our views). This is how the Overton Window works, it's why there's a bias towards appearing as a moderate. It's a good heuristic, it's just wrong in the case of our climate situation.

sd8f9iu 7y ago

How does this at all prove the "cataclysmic forecasts from scientists" — namely, that climate change will destroy the reefs — wrong? The scientist responsible for this study himself says, "We need to stop climate change, because it's not going to be enough," i.e. this discovery doesn't chance the broad forecast at all.

repolfx 7y ago
The headline itself explains it: what happened to the corals was previously stated to be fatal. But it turns out not to be fatal. That's a miss and raises questions about whether the new predictions at the bottom of the article are also wrong.
- saalweachter 7y ago
  People survive gunshots to the head and chest, falls from high heights, heart attacks and smallpox. Most things that are reasonably described as "fatal" aren't actually death sentences; well, no more than actual death sentences, for which reprieves are granted all the time. Doesn't make them good, or even particularly less bad.

mythrwy 7y ago

Like this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7139797.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7139797.stm Pardon me at this point for disbelieving in the ability to accurately model very complex systems. And no, our technology has not suddenly achieved this magical ability in the last 30 years.

eranima 7y ago

> but as usual, cataclysmic forecasts from scientists This is a really dangerous mindset.