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Erdogan threatens to flood Europe with refugees
- deogeo 7y agoWhat a fool - the diversity will only make us stronger!
- wesammikhail 7y agooooh the irony in this statement. If I could only monetize that somehow!!! If diversity was truly a strength why would he threaten to voluntarily give away that which makes him "strong"?... Who was the last "dictator" you can think of that willfully wanted to give away an advantage? Rather than having an elitists take on the matter while calling others fools, maybe you should reflect a little bit as to why he would make such a threat. If you think about it for more than two seconds you´ll come to the realization that he´s threatening because, unlike you, he understands the nature of what makes this a "threat".
- FeteCommuniste 7y agoPretty sure that GP's statement was sarcastic and you two are on the same team.
- wesammikhail 7y agoI sure hope so. But weirdly enough, you cant tell sarcasm from a serious statement these days because we are in a crazy time where the most stupid shit is an everyday occurrence.
- diegoperini 7y agoI wish there weren't any teams in these kind of discussions.
- akhilcacharya 7y agoTo be clear, diversity does make countries stronger and America's exceptional status as a hyperpower is proof of this.
- rimliu 7y agoIt would be an interesting exercise to count the number of logical fallacies in this one sentence.
- happytoexplain 7y agoPretty sure it's just the one - assertion of "proof" where they should have said "evidence". I don't know why your tone is so antagonistic.
- wsc981 7y agoJapan isn’t very diverse and they seem to be doing ok. Diversity has it’s pros and cons.
- akhilcacharya 7y ago~30 year stagnation is OK? Their 30 year postwar expansion was made possible due to American investment. The Abe government understands this and is attempting to lure foreign work albeit slowly. It’s hardly an example of cultural or economic dynamism the United States is.
- mcsofake 7y ago> they seem to be doing ok Japan is not really doing OK. They are literally going extinct, have an awful and destructive work culture and have a ton of problems with sexism, to the point where it is necessary to have gender-segregated train carriages to stop groping. The only reason Japan seems to be doing OK is because their news are mostly inaccessible to the rest of the world.
- deogeo 7y ago> They are literally going extinct Has immigration raised the birth-rate of the native population in other countries? I can find no examples of that anywhere in the modern-day West. Besides, there are significantly more Japanese people now than at any other time in history, the last decade being the sole exception [1,2]. They have a long way to go before having to worry of extinction, and the environment will be very grateful in the mean-time. As for reducing sexism, diversity is no guarantee, and can easily go the other way: https://www.france24.com/en/video/20161219-france-battle-against-gender-segregation-french-suburbs https://www.france24.com/en/video/20161219-france-battle-aga... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Japan_before_the_Meiji_Restoration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Japan_b... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#Historical_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#Historic...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- wsc981 7y agoIt's really stupid of the EU that they don't really want to properly enforce their own borders and instead outsource this job to a semi-dictator.
- vkou 7y agoIt's stupid how we spend a decade destabilizing a region, and then aren't willing to deal with the humanitarian consequences of our actions. Start a war? Be ready to deal with the refugees displaced by it.
- reggintoggaf 7y agoUS does it, and EU is supposed to eat shit?
- dmortin 7y agoIt's not trivial to enforce a maritime border. What do you do if people come on boats? You can pick them up from the boats, but Turkey won't take them back. What then?
- morningseagulls 7y ago>You can pick them up from the boats, but Turkey won't take them back. What then? <sarcasm> Well... has anyone ever heard of Australia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_Australia >Australia is the only country in the world with a policy of mandatory detention and offshore processing of asylum seekers who arrive without a valid visa. Find some islands somewhere and send the refugees there. And then wait. Oh, and make threatening videos like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvz3U-JOvOU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvz3U-JOvOU </sarcasm>
- pkaye 7y agoI'm curious how all this is different from what Trump has been attempting to do at the US border? So shipping asylum seekers to a country with a semi-dictator or an island somewhere is considered acceptable?
- jeffdavis 7y agoCan someone please explain the border and refugee system here? What exactly is he threatening to do? And if there are a lot of refugees, can't admission to EU be a separate decision?
- opwieurposiu 7y agoThe EU pays Turkey a lot of money. In return Turkey patrols its coastline to prevent migrants from boating across to the Greek islands. They can still get in by making the longer trip from north africa. Numbers of migrants are down since 2015 so perhaps it has been working?
- kyriakos 7y agoI don't think the numbers are correct are down, situation in Greek Islands is critical. If you read the local press there are islands that are so overwhelmed that the locals are migrating to mainland cause they can no longer live there.
- morningseagulls 7y agoWhat opwieurposiu said. Also, here are some resources about the tactic Erdogan is using: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_as_weapons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_as_weapons https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501704369/weapons-of-mass-migration/ https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501704369/weap...
- wlkr 7y agoTurkey has some 4 million [0] refugees (overwhelmingly Syrian [1]) which the EU supports financially, as well as helping to pay for coastal patrols. Migrants seeking to get to the eastern Mediterranean are instead returned to Turkey. Erdogan states, "if you try to frame our operation [in northern Syria] as an invasion, our task is simple: we will open the doors and send 3.6 million migrants to you" [2]. I can't find any specifics but presumably he's referring to Turkey ceasing to intercept and warehouse refugees who would otherwise head straight to Europe. [0]: https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/news_corner/migration_en https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/news_corner/m... [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/echo/where/europe/turkey_en https://ec.europa.eu/echo/where/europe/turkey_en [2]: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/10/turkeys-erdogan-threatens-send-millions-refugees-europe-eu-calls/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/10/turkeys-erdogan-...
- heraclius 7y ago3.6mn is so trifling that Turkey can deal with it. Europe could too, with proper organisation; I hope that we face up to our responsibilities if Erdogan follows through—at least then something good would come of Turkey’s aggression against Rojava.
- morningseagulls 7y ago>Europe could too, with proper organisation Aye, I hope so too. However, if Erdogan follows through, he may just send the IS folks through first, and then tip off the tabloid press about how the EU is compromising its security by letting in terrorists. Cue the backlash and outrage... and then he opens the floodgates.
- Someone 7y agoFor Turkey, that’s 4,5% of its population. I wouldn’t call that “trifling”.
- heraclius 7y agoIt’s trifling for Europe as a whole, as shown by the fact that Turkey managed to process them alone. For Turkey or course it is not trifling.
- mcsofake 7y ago> It’s trifling for Europe as a whole, as shown by the fact that Turkey managed to process them alone. Considering the fact that 1 million refugees were enough to revitalize Neo-Nazi parties and cause a wave of right-wing terrorism and political assassinations, no, it is not trifling for Europe. I think some of you forget/don't realize how dire the situation was before the 2016 EU-Turkey refugee agreement. 5m would likely lead to the collapse of the EU.
- dehrmann 7y agoHindsight being 20/20, and all, the US withdrawing from Iraq (with some European pressure to do so) caused a lot of instability in the region. I doubt that ISIS would have been much of a concern without a power void in Iraq.
- dragonwriter 7y ago> Hindsight being 20/20, and all, the US withdrawing from Iraq (with some European pressure to do so) caused a lot of instability in the region. We, the US invading Iraq and then immediately upon occupying it throwing out all experience of past occupations and disbanding the existing security services summarily caused a lot of instability. Without it, the group that subsequently became (despite no previous affiliation with, and some actual tension with, al-Qaeda) “al-Qaeda in Iraq”, then when they outgrew the need for the al-Qaeda brand “the Islamic State in Iraq” and later became “the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria” (or, in the more common translation in many official circles, “...Iraq and the Levant”, hence why you sometimes see government sources referring to ISIL) after remerging with a splinter group that broke off to join in the Syrian civil war, and finally dropped all geographic references to be “the Islamic State”, never would have been anything other than a minor Iraqi internal opposition group.
- GordonS 7y ago> I doubt that ISIS would have been much of a concern without a power void in Iraq I doubt that ISIS would even have existed without the US invasion of Iraq. I, and plenty others, saw this coming without hindsight.
- dehrmann 7y agoI agree, but once the US was in Iraq, it was kinda committed. Except it wasn't.
- craftoman 7y agoAgain, Europe is paying the "bill" and facing the consequences of the US-Russian-Turkish war on Syria. Europe is spending billions for the refugees but no one cared about. USA and Russian wanted to nuke the place for no reason and they didn't even spend a penny for helping all the refugees and immigrants. They're the most unethical countries right now.
- deodorel 7y agoI wonder why EU can't just strike back with economic sanctions if Erdogan follows through with his menace. I think the lira could go really really down...