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> they saw the futility of taking some hopeless, simplistic, you-don't-even-live-here side, decided this was not the hill they wanted to die on, and pulled the

> they saw the futility of taking some hopeless, simplistic, you-don't-even-live-here side, decided this was not the hill they wanted to die on, and pulled the app This is the problem though, that the CCP can strongarm corporations into these decisions. China poses a huge risk to any company that does a lot of business or does production there. Today it's just pulling an App, but what is it tomorrow? In the states this risk is predictable: The FBI can demand what it wants, and Apple refuses when they can, because they know they can weather a legal challenge. The risk is NOT predictable in the case of China: the government can demand what they want, and Apple's only choices are to play along or run home and tank the company. If things sour between nations, who knows what ultimatum is next. Moreover this unpredictable risk spills over into a chilling effect: to avoid even receiving an ultimatum, Apple and any other company will bend over backwards to always be in the good graces of the government.

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
There's also the risk that the US President might unilaterally ban American corporations from doing any business with you. Through secondary sanctions, that ban will extend to corporations around the world. The US has arbitrarily cut off entire countries from the world market, including Iran and Venezuela, and it has cut off individual corporations as well, including Huawei and ZTE. Everyone here seems to be up in arms about an NBA exec having to retract a tweet, but the US is throwing its weight around in much more damaging ways at the moment. The entire country of Iran is being economically strangled at the moment, based on the sole, arbitrary decision of the US President, but nobody seems to care too much.
- helen___keller 7y ago
  No, I don't think there's any risk to Americans or American corporations that the president will unilaterally ban American corporations from doing business with me, an American There is a very real risk to me, an American, that the products or services sold to me by an American corporation will be degraded or changed at the request of the CCP in exchange for that corporations continued access to the Chinese market Does that clear things up?
  - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
    But they may very well ban you from doing business with a foreign company, for completely arbitrary and opaque reasons. You may be suddenly told that you have to break off relations with your largest customer, or a product you own may suddenly lose important functionality. Millions of Europeans are now affected by the American Huawei ban, which risks degrading the phones that they bought. This is far more serious than any impact China's actions with regards to the NBA, Apple, etc. have had. How anyone can say that an NBA exec having to retract a tweet is more serious than Huawei's CFO being imprisoned and the company cut off from virtually all their international suppliers is beyond me.
    - helen___keller 7y ago
      In your earlier post you said > nobody seems to care too much I explained this is because Americans doing business with American companies are not affected by the things you describe. you're the only one ascribing values like "is more serious than Huaweis CEO being imprisoned", I never said that and I didn't see anybody else in this thread even mention Huawei
      - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
        Chinese people doing business with Chinese companies aren't affected by these sorts of things either. By restricting the discussion in that way, you're evading what you must know is the main point of what I'm saying: people doing business have been much more heavily affected, so far in this trade war, by arbitrary actions of the US President than of the Chinese government. This applies equally to American businesspeople. The ban on doing business with Huawei, for example, has wiped out billions of dollars in revenue from the balance sheets of American companies. So while these threads on China regularly draw huge numbers of comments all but calling for war with China, the much more serious, arbitrary actions by the sitting US President are met mostly with approval in these forums.
        helen___keller 7y ago

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago

There's also the risk that the US President might unilaterally ban American corporations from doing any business with you. Through secondary sanctions, that ban will extend to corporations around the world. The US has arbitrarily cut off entire countries from the world market, including Iran and Venezuela, and it has cut off individual corporations as well, including Huawei and ZTE. Everyone here seems to be up in arms about an NBA exec having to retract a tweet, but the US is throwing its weight around in much more damaging ways at the moment. The entire country of Iran is being economically strangled at the moment, based on the sole, arbitrary decision of the US President, but nobody seems to care too much.

helen___keller 7y ago
No, I don't think there's any risk to Americans or American corporations that the president will unilaterally ban American corporations from doing business with me, an American There is a very real risk to me, an American, that the products or services sold to me by an American corporation will be degraded or changed at the request of the CCP in exchange for that corporations continued access to the Chinese market Does that clear things up?
- DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
  But they may very well ban you from doing business with a foreign company, for completely arbitrary and opaque reasons. You may be suddenly told that you have to break off relations with your largest customer, or a product you own may suddenly lose important functionality. Millions of Europeans are now affected by the American Huawei ban, which risks degrading the phones that they bought. This is far more serious than any impact China's actions with regards to the NBA, Apple, etc. have had. How anyone can say that an NBA exec having to retract a tweet is more serious than Huawei's CFO being imprisoned and the company cut off from virtually all their international suppliers is beyond me.
  - helen___keller 7y ago
    In your earlier post you said > nobody seems to care too much I explained this is because Americans doing business with American companies are not affected by the things you describe. you're the only one ascribing values like "is more serious than Huaweis CEO being imprisoned", I never said that and I didn't see anybody else in this thread even mention Huawei
    - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
      Chinese people doing business with Chinese companies aren't affected by these sorts of things either. By restricting the discussion in that way, you're evading what you must know is the main point of what I'm saying: people doing business have been much more heavily affected, so far in this trade war, by arbitrary actions of the US President than of the Chinese government. This applies equally to American businesspeople. The ban on doing business with Huawei, for example, has wiped out billions of dollars in revenue from the balance sheets of American companies. So while these threads on China regularly draw huge numbers of comments all but calling for war with China, the much more serious, arbitrary actions by the sitting US President are met mostly with approval in these forums.
      - helen___keller 7y ago