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I’ll take a stab at it, since I’ve done some migrations to Bazel (and also away from Bazel). The comparison to Make and makefiles is good because Make, unlike s
by klodolph 7y ago
I’ll take a stab at it, since I’ve done some migrations to Bazel (and also away from Bazel). The comparison to Make and makefiles is good because Make, unlike some other build systems, is mostly declarative. Most of your makefile is going to declare what the inputs and outputs are.
If you use Make long enough, there are some obvious improvements you want. Multiple outputs, rebuild when options change, and easier cross-compiling are the top ones. Various build systems attempt to add these features. In my mind, Ninja is the only build system that added these features well, and it worked because Ninja removed all the other features to focus on just the build process (as opposed to specification / configuration).
If you think about these problems with Make, you realize that it kind of boils down to one big thing: you want your build system to always rebuild when necessary, and you want it to almost never rebuild when unnecessary. (Plus the bit about cross-compiling.)
Other build systems rely on the developer writing the build scripts to just “get it right”. Bazel is different because it sandboxes the rules to enforce hermeticity. In Make, I can include "pear.h" which includes "orange.h", but let’s suppose that "orange.h" is actually a generated source file… now, try writing this out in a Makefile (if you’re a masochist, say you’re cross-compiling). Yes, "orange.h" should be declared as an input to anything that includes "pear.h", but in practice, developers are going to screw it up. At that point you can end up with a build that uses two different versions of "orange.h".
Bazel sandboxes the commands so that any rule not declared to depend on "orange.h" will not be able to open "orange.h" at all. The process won’t see the file at all.
This opens the door for all sorts of optimizations and query features that are simply unreliable if you have to trust that human developers are writing the rules correctly. These optimizations, for large projects, result in radical build time improvements. For most build systems, a shared build cache would come with a risk of bad cache entries, but with Bazel, the risk is substantially lower. It’s also easier to get reproducible builds, which make it substantially easier to do certain types of auditing.
- dickeytk 7y agoGreat explanation, thank you!
- boris 7y agoBazel (and Bazel-derivatives/alikes) is not unique in fixing all of these problems. For example, there is build2, which is arguably a lighter-weight and closer to make (in spirit, not in syntax) solution (no Java dependency, etc). Here is an intro, if anyone is interested: https://build2.org/build2/doc/build2-build-system-manual.xhtml#intro https://build2.org/build2/doc/build2-build-system-manual.xht...
- skybrian 7y agoI did a quick skim and it doesn't seem to sandbox the build steps like Bazel? Maybe I missed something.
- boris 7y agoIt doesn't do Bazel's style sandboxing where your entire compiler toolchain is part of your build system. It does what we call high-fidelity builds: it tracks changes not only to inputs but also to compile options, compiler itself (checksum), environment, etc., and if any of these auxiliary dependencies change, it triggers a rebuild. There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches with build2's being lighter weight.
- rienbdj 7y agoI don't see how build2 can be in the same spirit as Bazel when it misses the main advantage of Bazel
- boris 7y agoI never said build2 is "in the same spirit" as Bazel (whatever that means). I said it fixes the same problems as OP listed.
- weberc2 7y ago> I said it fixes the same problems as OP listed. The OP listed noted that hermeticity is required for fast builds, and that humans can't be relied upon to provide hermeticity as a property. How does build2 guarantee hermeticity or otherwise support fast builds without a clean room solution a la bazel?