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I trust politicians as much as I trust billionaires: not at all. In fact as the OP points out at least the occasional billionaire will do something productive f

I trust politicians as much as I trust billionaires: not at all. In fact as the OP points out at least the occasional billionaire will do something productive for society. The same can't be said for the government. > [citation needed] In fact, there's an easy counter-example. Healthcare. More expensive than any public system, with worse outcomes for the general population. The only reason health care is so expensive in the US is because of government regulations. From doctor accreditation, FDA approval, health insurance "marketplace" rules... The government is the single largest force pushing up the price of health care.

ceejayoz 7y ago
> The same can't be said for the government. Sure, if we pretend roads, emergency services, public schools, safer cars, hell, the very Internet we're posting on don't exist. > The only reason health care is so expensive in the US is because of government regulations. And yet, highly regulated, government-run European healthcare costs half what it does here.
marmadukester39 7y ago
So you want uncertified doctors, unvetted medications and health insurers to be able to do whatever they want to their captive customers. Got it.
- roenxi 7y ago
  You seem to have grasped the essence of the argument, except that health insurers wouldn't have captive customers because the captivity is enforced largely by government regulations. The point is that mandatory certification of doctors, medications vetted through a highly risk averse process and having no flexibility in dealing with health insurers all secure better outcomes at a cost that nobody apart from the government thinks is reasonable. If anyone had a choice, which they do not, they would probably choose something cheaper. It is lovely that surgeons are all wealthy, articulate, over-educated polymaths with numerous hobbies and interests (and can probably play a musical instrument, I don't know), etc, etc, except it isn't actually obvious why they need all that. At the end of the day a surgeon needs experience, steady hands and an aversion to doing things that are not necessary. And when tested people will prefer cheap with a good reputation to overqualified but approved by some guild. It isn't like accidents don't already happen. Can't escape from risk using bureaucracy; minimising risk at all costs is a sign that people are making bad decisions.
AlexandrB 7y ago
> The same can't be said for the government. Good point! We all know how ARPANET turned out.
- rusk 7y ago
  Google got a lot of government funding at the outset too I heard ...
pintxo 7y ago
Assuming you live in the USA, the simple fact, that you can leave your house and have access to a (still) working transportation infrastructure and do not need (I hope) private security to protect your life and property is proof that the Government does something productive for society. I am as off by a lot of recent Government actions and their seeming inability to fix obvious issues. But to argue they to nothing productive for society? That is just plain wrong. Also, I'd like to highlight that millions of citizens are only healthy/alive because of regulations. Are they perfect? Far from it, but can we live without them? No.
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  It's a mixed bag. My daughter-in-law was doing a rotation in Baltimore at Johns Hopkins, and the commissioner of police(?) that lived on her block was mugged. She definitely didn't feel safe there, and will not likely accept a residency there because of the security situation. So in Baltimore at least, the local government has fundamentally failed at some of the things mentioned.
  - rusk 7y ago
    Baltimore is a funny one, because I was reading about it and it's actually in one of the wealthiest, most educated parts of the US. But the city itself is a dump. What's going on there if you've got all these wealthy, educated people around, and yet the place is a kip. Is everybody just sitting in their gardens in their leafy suburbs while the world around them burns?
  - pintxo 7y ago
    Well, obviously this is not a binary situation. There is more than one government, and event within the same government, it's still people governing and people being governed. I am afraid we have to expect some gradient here.
- logicchains 7y ago
  >Also, I'd like to highlight that millions of citizens are only healthy/alive because of regulations Citation needed? There were practically no regulations a century ago compared to now, and while more people died then, it certainly wasn't millions (unless you're counting something like vaccines as "regulation").

ceejayoz 7y ago

> The same can't be said for the government. Sure, if we pretend roads, emergency services, public schools, safer cars, hell, the very Internet we're posting on don't exist. > The only reason health care is so expensive in the US is because of government regulations. And yet, highly regulated, government-run European healthcare costs half what it does here.

marmadukester39 7y ago

So you want uncertified doctors, unvetted medications and health insurers to be able to do whatever they want to their captive customers. Got it.

roenxi 7y ago
You seem to have grasped the essence of the argument, except that health insurers wouldn't have captive customers because the captivity is enforced largely by government regulations. The point is that mandatory certification of doctors, medications vetted through a highly risk averse process and having no flexibility in dealing with health insurers all secure better outcomes at a cost that nobody apart from the government thinks is reasonable. If anyone had a choice, which they do not, they would probably choose something cheaper. It is lovely that surgeons are all wealthy, articulate, over-educated polymaths with numerous hobbies and interests (and can probably play a musical instrument, I don't know), etc, etc, except it isn't actually obvious why they need all that. At the end of the day a surgeon needs experience, steady hands and an aversion to doing things that are not necessary. And when tested people will prefer cheap with a good reputation to overqualified but approved by some guild. It isn't like accidents don't already happen. Can't escape from risk using bureaucracy; minimising risk at all costs is a sign that people are making bad decisions.

AlexandrB 7y ago

> The same can't be said for the government. Good point! We all know how ARPANET turned out.

rusk 7y ago
Google got a lot of government funding at the outset too I heard ...

pintxo 7y ago

Assuming you live in the USA, the simple fact, that you can leave your house and have access to a (still) working transportation infrastructure and do not need (I hope) private security to protect your life and property is proof that the Government does something productive for society. I am as off by a lot of recent Government actions and their seeming inability to fix obvious issues. But to argue they to nothing productive for society? That is just plain wrong. Also, I'd like to highlight that millions of citizens are only healthy/alive because of regulations. Are they perfect? Far from it, but can we live without them? No.

JoeAltmaier 7y ago
It's a mixed bag. My daughter-in-law was doing a rotation in Baltimore at Johns Hopkins, and the commissioner of police(?) that lived on her block was mugged. She definitely didn't feel safe there, and will not likely accept a residency there because of the security situation. So in Baltimore at least, the local government has fundamentally failed at some of the things mentioned.
- rusk 7y ago
  Baltimore is a funny one, because I was reading about it and it's actually in one of the wealthiest, most educated parts of the US. But the city itself is a dump. What's going on there if you've got all these wealthy, educated people around, and yet the place is a kip. Is everybody just sitting in their gardens in their leafy suburbs while the world around them burns?
- pintxo 7y ago
  Well, obviously this is not a binary situation. There is more than one government, and event within the same government, it's still people governing and people being governed. I am afraid we have to expect some gradient here.
logicchains 7y ago
>Also, I'd like to highlight that millions of citizens are only healthy/alive because of regulations Citation needed? There were practically no regulations a century ago compared to now, and while more people died then, it certainly wasn't millions (unless you're counting something like vaccines as "regulation").