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that's a huge assumption you're making. Narcissists and Sociopaths make up 1% of the population each. To characterise most young bullies as narcissists/sociopa

that's a huge assumption you're making. Narcissists and Sociopaths make up 1% of the population each. To characterise most young bullies as narcissists/sociopaths when A - Their brains are still developing, and B - They're at an impressionable age where their sociability is highly moulded by their environment (e.g. parents) is disingenuous.

Nasrudith 7y ago
I suspect we have even worse matters than the 1% - they are often contagious as you see their actions and rationalizations adopted by not technically sociopaths and narcissists because they are rewarded for it. And just like other conditioned for behavior done independently of when it would actually help them.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  > you see their actions and rationalizations adopted by not technically sociopaths and narcissists Yup, that's the real issue. The sociopaths and narcissists may only be 2% to 4% of the population but those are the actual bullies, so to speak - those who are most clever at manipulating others into adopting similar behaviors and attitudes. Thus some youths who seem to be bullies may actually be victims of manipulation by somebody they look up to, but they will stop their behavior once the attitude around them changes for the better.
- andoofthewoods 7y ago
  Everyone has sociopaths and narcissistic tendencies to varying degrees. But to say that "most" bullies are sociopaths or narcissists that can't be helped like OP said (before editing their comment) misunderstands people period. Adolescents don't have the developed perception of consequence as adults, and yet OP is already pinning them with mental disorders that can't be resolved. Pure speculation that is outright wrong. In the case that you mention with learned anti-social behaviours, counselling can most definitely help with unmapping/correcting those behaviours.
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    > "most" bullies are sociopaths or narcissists Um, I never said that. I talked about tendencies, just like you did. It's not very meaningful to say what bullies "are", but bullying does generally involve at least some degree of instrumental aggression and callous/unempathetic attitudes. Such attitudes might arise out of simple imitation like you said, but only if someone else is actively demonstrating them - and this will generally be someone in the peer group who holds significant social influence on others.

Nasrudith 7y ago

I suspect we have even worse matters than the 1% - they are often contagious as you see their actions and rationalizations adopted by not technically sociopaths and narcissists because they are rewarded for it. And just like other conditioned for behavior done independently of when it would actually help them.

zozbot234 7y ago
> you see their actions and rationalizations adopted by not technically sociopaths and narcissists Yup, that's the real issue. The sociopaths and narcissists may only be 2% to 4% of the population but those are the actual bullies, so to speak - those who are most clever at manipulating others into adopting similar behaviors and attitudes. Thus some youths who seem to be bullies may actually be victims of manipulation by somebody they look up to, but they will stop their behavior once the attitude around them changes for the better.
andoofthewoods 7y ago
Everyone has sociopaths and narcissistic tendencies to varying degrees. But to say that "most" bullies are sociopaths or narcissists that can't be helped like OP said (before editing their comment) misunderstands people period. Adolescents don't have the developed perception of consequence as adults, and yet OP is already pinning them with mental disorders that can't be resolved. Pure speculation that is outright wrong. In the case that you mention with learned anti-social behaviours, counselling can most definitely help with unmapping/correcting those behaviours.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  > "most" bullies are sociopaths or narcissists Um, I never said that. I talked about tendencies, just like you did. It's not very meaningful to say what bullies "are", but bullying does generally involve at least some degree of instrumental aggression and callous/unempathetic attitudes. Such attitudes might arise out of simple imitation like you said, but only if someone else is actively demonstrating them - and this will generally be someone in the peer group who holds significant social influence on others.