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I don’t think they said “more free than UK citizens”. Although, to be fair, US doesn’t have quite as intrusive CCTV. And I thought gun laws were pretty restrict

I don’t think they said “more free than UK citizens”. Although, to be fair, US doesn’t have quite as intrusive CCTV. And I thought gun laws were pretty restrictive in UK? But “most ways” is probably a reach, and there are certainly things UK does do much better. Edit: would appreciate feedback if my comment is not constructive or could be improved in some way.

the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
For me as a European "gun laws were pretty restrictive in UK" for me means freedom more than access to guns does. I quite value the freedom of not having to worry about guns.
- vinay427 7y ago
  That's a very convoluted definition of freedom. I think there are many other things to call that ("sensible" or "sane" come to mind...) but it's objectively less free, legally/on paper as I stated.
  - the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
    By that definition any law stands in the way of freedom. You're not allowed to kill people in the US, so would it be a more free country if that law was not in place? From my cultural upbringing having regulation in place to steer society does not stand at odds with freedom. And that's also by my cultural background not "convoluted".
  - kmlx 7y ago
    when the fear of guns stifles your movement, then yes, a lack of guns means more freedom. i'm writing this after having lived in the murder capital of the US and now moved to the UK. personal safety (and thus freedom) in Europe is at another level compared to the US. which makes sense. the US is at Zambia and Sudan levels of murders per capita. truly shameful.
    - refurb 7y ago
      If you look at all violent crimes in the US versus UK, they aren’t all that different.
  - aquaticsunset 7y ago
    This is where it gets a little “grey area.” If my freedom to have a gun impacts many, many other freedoms of the people around me, is society more free or less? If my freedom to text and drive impacts the right to life and freedom of those around me, it’s imperative to restrict that one freedom so the freedom of the society remains.
- refurb 7y ago
  “As a person from China, the fact the gov’t is putting Muslims in camps means more freedom for me from terrorism.” That’s not freedom.
  - tripzilch 7y ago
    I want freedom from straw men.

the_mitsuhiko 7y ago

For me as a European "gun laws were pretty restrictive in UK" for me means freedom more than access to guns does. I quite value the freedom of not having to worry about guns.

vinay427 7y ago
That's a very convoluted definition of freedom. I think there are many other things to call that ("sensible" or "sane" come to mind...) but it's objectively less free, legally/on paper as I stated.
- the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
  By that definition any law stands in the way of freedom. You're not allowed to kill people in the US, so would it be a more free country if that law was not in place? From my cultural upbringing having regulation in place to steer society does not stand at odds with freedom. And that's also by my cultural background not "convoluted".
- kmlx 7y ago
  when the fear of guns stifles your movement, then yes, a lack of guns means more freedom. i'm writing this after having lived in the murder capital of the US and now moved to the UK. personal safety (and thus freedom) in Europe is at another level compared to the US. which makes sense. the US is at Zambia and Sudan levels of murders per capita. truly shameful.
  - refurb 7y ago
    If you look at all violent crimes in the US versus UK, they aren’t all that different.
- aquaticsunset 7y ago
  This is where it gets a little “grey area.” If my freedom to have a gun impacts many, many other freedoms of the people around me, is society more free or less? If my freedom to text and drive impacts the right to life and freedom of those around me, it’s imperative to restrict that one freedom so the freedom of the society remains.
refurb 7y ago
“As a person from China, the fact the gov’t is putting Muslims in camps means more freedom for me from terrorism.” That’s not freedom.
- tripzilch 7y ago
  I want freedom from straw men.