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My company worked on designing this product. The decline of physical mail, combined with the high job security, especially in hybrid public/private companies li

My company worked on designing this product. The decline of physical mail, combined with the high job security, especially in hybrid public/private companies like La Poste, lead to having to find new revenue streams compatible with the existing skillset of the employees. It started off quite slowly! But momentum is building up. Happy to direct all questions to the team that imagined it!

tom_softeng 7y ago
I have a lot of exposure to this company and their employees, and you present something here that is quite far from reality. The decline of physical mail is undeniable, but it's also La Poste that delivers the vast majority of the packages coming from e-sellers (and we all know that's just been increasing over and over). Also, the "high job security" you talk about does not exist in this company as pretty much nobody is hired as a "fonctionnaire" (a state worker) anymore, and it's been years now. The workers in La Poste suffer from a very high pressure from middle management who cuts jobs and readjust "tournées" (a mailman perimeter) incessantly, with the same "there's less work than before" excuse. The reality is that these people work more and more (significantly), work conditions are worsening drastically, and La Poste employees have one of the highest depression and suicide rates in the country (more than 40 last year declared in their farewell letter they committed suicide at least partly because of the job, I let you imagine how many more were not counted). This new product (while I think it would be really great if workers had enough time and an appropriate training) is unfortunately just another way for the company - and it'd be fine if it were not, again, to the expense of the workers - to make more money. Implying the main reason is that workers just don't have enough to do anymore is just not fair.
- donmatito 7y ago
  I feel like the (very valid) points you are making, are not contradicting OP He did not say the workers had less to do, he said the company had to find new revenue streams... Like you I support this initiative if it also includes employees wellbeing La Poste is like France Telecom 10 years ago. The landscape is changing, it needs to evolve with the new world, provide new services, find a new place & role, hopefully keeping the values of public services. We know that the France Telecom => Orange turnaround was a business success at the expense of the health of many employees. I am afraid it will be the same with la Poste because of the same rigid management practices
  - littlestymaar 7y ago
    > The landscape is changing, it needs to evolve with the new world To be fair, this is not much the natural evolution of the landscape but the political decisions from the European Commission pushing on its “pro-competition”[1] agenda. [1] you may want to call it “neoliberal”, and you'll be right.
    - donmatito 7y ago
      I disagree : Internet and emails are a structural change that challenge the fundamental raison d'être, the role of the postal service. Same as Internet challenge the role of France Telecom as a communication provider La Poste transformation is required, otherwise they'll quickly become obsolete. And "in theory" they approach it the right way ? What are the values and strengths of la Poste ? It's commitment to public service, its network of offices around the country, the relationship and trust between the agents and the public... Then based on that you can rebuild a new set of services offered by la Poste But of course the difference between theory and practice is that they may do these changes in a brutal, top-down fashion that leaves employees burnt-out :-( And also, blaming the European Union for everything is a bad reflex that halps nationalist and Brexit-like parties
  - tom_softeng 7y ago
    There was no explicit mention of "there's less work for them", but making the point of "workers with a very high job security" had (imo) no other purpose but to imply that those people are here to stay and that one has to find a way to make them useful (otherwise why bother mentioning that?). It was my reading of it. Anyway, in case, I just wanted to expose those facts :) Totally agree with your analysis about Orange.
littlestymaar 7y ago
> My company worked on designing this product. When you say "this product" does that also include the electronic time-tracking on postmen which prevent them to talk with people for free? Because most of this "product" formerly came for free when postmen had enough time and no constant spying on their movements. Them someone realized that elderly people complained about the lack of interaction with postmen and decided to make them pay for it. Is that what you call “designing a product”?
- brmgb 7y ago
  That has been my experience with this as well. It must be nice having an ad like this in the New Yorker but what is presented is pretty far for the truth. The postal service used to be a corner of local life in the countryside. Postmen had the same "tournée", the list of address to which they deliver mail, for a long time, sometimes decades and mail was traditionally delivered by bike. As a result, they knew their customers. The figure of the local postman as a social presence is deeply anchored in French culture notably in popular songs. This innovation is therefor less an innovation that a way of making people pay for something that used to be free. The reality of the new offer is that now the time postmen spend at each place along their distribution path is tighly monitored so that they don't stay too long with people who don't pay. It's not so much about introducing new care than about preventing free interactions. Obviously it might not be obvious to the mostly urban consultants who advised La Poste on this. It is the 21st century after all, you have to capitalize on the "silver economy".
- vianneychevalie 7y ago
  No I do not mean the electronic time-tracking of postmen, or the CRM development helping with the conversations. We're a consulting company, and this idea was from our marketing strategy team. You're right about the spying, but you're wrong about the target. The postmen provide information about the elderly to their family. I don't believe this product used to come for free. The family is paying to have info and regular updates, not the elderly.
eric_khun 7y ago
Thanks! - how many subscribers do you have now? - what was the most efficient marketing channel?
- vianneychevalie 7y ago
  There is around 10,000 subscribers now. The most efficient marketing channel was word of mouth, and conversion through the website. The media picked up on it quite easily, since it's both controversial and innovative, in a way.

tom_softeng 7y ago

I have a lot of exposure to this company and their employees, and you present something here that is quite far from reality. The decline of physical mail is undeniable, but it's also La Poste that delivers the vast majority of the packages coming from e-sellers (and we all know that's just been increasing over and over). Also, the "high job security" you talk about does not exist in this company as pretty much nobody is hired as a "fonctionnaire" (a state worker) anymore, and it's been years now. The workers in La Poste suffer from a very high pressure from middle management who cuts jobs and readjust "tournées" (a mailman perimeter) incessantly, with the same "there's less work than before" excuse. The reality is that these people work more and more (significantly), work conditions are worsening drastically, and La Poste employees have one of the highest depression and suicide rates in the country (more than 40 last year declared in their farewell letter they committed suicide at least partly because of the job, I let you imagine how many more were not counted). This new product (while I think it would be really great if workers had enough time and an appropriate training) is unfortunately just another way for the company - and it'd be fine if it were not, again, to the expense of the workers - to make more money. Implying the main reason is that workers just don't have enough to do anymore is just not fair.

donmatito 7y ago
I feel like the (very valid) points you are making, are not contradicting OP He did not say the workers had less to do, he said the company had to find new revenue streams... Like you I support this initiative if it also includes employees wellbeing La Poste is like France Telecom 10 years ago. The landscape is changing, it needs to evolve with the new world, provide new services, find a new place & role, hopefully keeping the values of public services. We know that the France Telecom => Orange turnaround was a business success at the expense of the health of many employees. I am afraid it will be the same with la Poste because of the same rigid management practices
- littlestymaar 7y ago
  > The landscape is changing, it needs to evolve with the new world To be fair, this is not much the natural evolution of the landscape but the political decisions from the European Commission pushing on its “pro-competition”[1] agenda. [1] you may want to call it “neoliberal”, and you'll be right.
  - donmatito 7y ago
    I disagree : Internet and emails are a structural change that challenge the fundamental raison d'être, the role of the postal service. Same as Internet challenge the role of France Telecom as a communication provider La Poste transformation is required, otherwise they'll quickly become obsolete. And "in theory" they approach it the right way ? What are the values and strengths of la Poste ? It's commitment to public service, its network of offices around the country, the relationship and trust between the agents and the public... Then based on that you can rebuild a new set of services offered by la Poste But of course the difference between theory and practice is that they may do these changes in a brutal, top-down fashion that leaves employees burnt-out :-( And also, blaming the European Union for everything is a bad reflex that halps nationalist and Brexit-like parties
- tom_softeng 7y ago
  There was no explicit mention of "there's less work for them", but making the point of "workers with a very high job security" had (imo) no other purpose but to imply that those people are here to stay and that one has to find a way to make them useful (otherwise why bother mentioning that?). It was my reading of it. Anyway, in case, I just wanted to expose those facts :) Totally agree with your analysis about Orange.

littlestymaar 7y ago

> My company worked on designing this product. When you say "this product" does that also include the electronic time-tracking on postmen which prevent them to talk with people for free? Because most of this "product" formerly came for free when postmen had enough time and no constant spying on their movements. Them someone realized that elderly people complained about the lack of interaction with postmen and decided to make them pay for it. Is that what you call “designing a product”?

brmgb 7y ago
That has been my experience with this as well. It must be nice having an ad like this in the New Yorker but what is presented is pretty far for the truth. The postal service used to be a corner of local life in the countryside. Postmen had the same "tournée", the list of address to which they deliver mail, for a long time, sometimes decades and mail was traditionally delivered by bike. As a result, they knew their customers. The figure of the local postman as a social presence is deeply anchored in French culture notably in popular songs. This innovation is therefor less an innovation that a way of making people pay for something that used to be free. The reality of the new offer is that now the time postmen spend at each place along their distribution path is tighly monitored so that they don't stay too long with people who don't pay. It's not so much about introducing new care than about preventing free interactions. Obviously it might not be obvious to the mostly urban consultants who advised La Poste on this. It is the 21st century after all, you have to capitalize on the "silver economy".
vianneychevalie 7y ago
No I do not mean the electronic time-tracking of postmen, or the CRM development helping with the conversations. We're a consulting company, and this idea was from our marketing strategy team. You're right about the spying, but you're wrong about the target. The postmen provide information about the elderly to their family. I don't believe this product used to come for free. The family is paying to have info and regular updates, not the elderly.

eric_khun 7y ago

Thanks! - how many subscribers do you have now? - what was the most efficient marketing channel?

vianneychevalie 7y ago
There is around 10,000 subscribers now. The most efficient marketing channel was word of mouth, and conversion through the website. The media picked up on it quite easily, since it's both controversial and innovative, in a way.