6 ms·

> It’s also not part of the European Union, but is within the EU Customs zone. As opposed to the British Overseas Territory of Gibraltar, which is within the E

> It’s also not part of the European Union, but is within the EU Customs zone. As opposed to the British Overseas Territory of Gibraltar, which is within the European Union, but outside the EU Customs area (until Brexit, at which point it leaves the EU too). The political status of British territories and dependencies is... _complex_.

arethuza 7y ago
"The political status of British territories and dependencies is... _complex_." Why is how (sadly false) ideas start like Berwick Upon Tweed still being engaged in a multi-generation life and death struggle with the Tsar's Russia: https://notesfromtheuk.com/2019/02/15/is-berwick-upon-tweed-at-war-with-russia/ https://notesfromtheuk.com/2019/02/15/is-berwick-upon-tweed-...
pjc50 7y ago
... and the sovereign military bases in Cyprus, which also get mentioned in the treaty discussions and full titles. I wondered how Gibraltar was outside the customs union; at time of UK joining, not only was Spain not in the EU, it was still a fascist dictatorship. https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Gibraltar-opt-out-of-the-EU-Customs-Union-when-the-UK-acceded-in-1973 https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Gibraltar-opt-out-of-the-EU-Cu...
- Fnoord 7y ago
  I don't have an answer to your question but calling that EU is, historically inaccurate at best. "During the 1950s the regime also changed from being openly totalitarian and using severe repression to an authoritarian system with limited pluralism. Spain joined the United Nations in 1955 and during the Cold War Franco was one of Europe's foremost anti-communist figures: his regime was assisted by the Western powers, and it was asked to join NATO. Franco died in 1975 at the age of 82." [1] At that point (1975) there was no such thing as the EU (it was called EEC [2] (EEG in my language), and very different from what the EU is today). There where still customs between all members of EEC, except Belgium and The Netherlands. I know this because in the 80s we traveled regularly from The Netherlands to Brussels where my aunt lived as a diplomat for the EEC, while we also bought fuel in Germany which was cheaper than The Netherlands (and there was customs there). The Wikipedia page of EEC [2] is a recommended read if you want to know more about the predecessor of the EU. Apparently, Spain joined in 1986. We went to vacation to Spain multiple times in my youth, including after 1986. We had customs checks. We also had these in France. And we had to take French Francs with us, as well as Spanish Pesetas. I even remember paying with Italian Liras at one point in 90s (1996?) and I felt very rich! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Community
  - ajdlinux 7y ago
    But relevantly, the EEC laid the foundations for the customs union well before it transitioned to becoming the EU, which is what GP is interested in. The EU customs union is separate from the borderless arrangements of the Schengen Area - the UK is part of the customs union but still has border checks - and of course back in the EEC days it wasn't as complete as the EU customs union is now. Of course Gibraltar joined the EEC back when the UK did...
  - Someone 7y ago
    ”There where still customs between all members of EEC, except Belgium and The Netherlands” Nitpick: and Luxembourg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux)
vinay427 7y ago
Argh, and I thought Switzerland was confusing (though as a completely sovereign country it may still be near the top). These are on a whole different level.
lathiat 7y ago
CGP Grey has a great video: "The Difference between the United Kingdom, Great Britain and England Explained" which covers a lot of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10

arethuza 7y ago

"The political status of British territories and dependencies is... _complex_." Why is how (sadly false) ideas start like Berwick Upon Tweed still being engaged in a multi-generation life and death struggle with the Tsar's Russia: https://notesfromtheuk.com/2019/02/15/is-berwick-upon-tweed-at-war-with-russia/ https://notesfromtheuk.com/2019/02/15/is-berwick-upon-tweed-...

pjc50 7y ago

... and the sovereign military bases in Cyprus, which also get mentioned in the treaty discussions and full titles. I wondered how Gibraltar was outside the customs union; at time of UK joining, not only was Spain not in the EU, it was still a fascist dictatorship. https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Gibraltar-opt-out-of-the-EU-Customs-Union-when-the-UK-acceded-in-1973 https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Gibraltar-opt-out-of-the-EU-Cu...

Fnoord 7y ago
I don't have an answer to your question but calling that EU is, historically inaccurate at best. "During the 1950s the regime also changed from being openly totalitarian and using severe repression to an authoritarian system with limited pluralism. Spain joined the United Nations in 1955 and during the Cold War Franco was one of Europe's foremost anti-communist figures: his regime was assisted by the Western powers, and it was asked to join NATO. Franco died in 1975 at the age of 82." [1] At that point (1975) there was no such thing as the EU (it was called EEC [2] (EEG in my language), and very different from what the EU is today). There where still customs between all members of EEC, except Belgium and The Netherlands. I know this because in the 80s we traveled regularly from The Netherlands to Brussels where my aunt lived as a diplomat for the EEC, while we also bought fuel in Germany which was cheaper than The Netherlands (and there was customs there). The Wikipedia page of EEC [2] is a recommended read if you want to know more about the predecessor of the EU. Apparently, Spain joined in 1986. We went to vacation to Spain multiple times in my youth, including after 1986. We had customs checks. We also had these in France. And we had to take French Francs with us, as well as Spanish Pesetas. I even remember paying with Italian Liras at one point in 90s (1996?) and I felt very rich! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Community
- ajdlinux 7y ago
  But relevantly, the EEC laid the foundations for the customs union well before it transitioned to becoming the EU, which is what GP is interested in. The EU customs union is separate from the borderless arrangements of the Schengen Area - the UK is part of the customs union but still has border checks - and of course back in the EEC days it wasn't as complete as the EU customs union is now. Of course Gibraltar joined the EEC back when the UK did...
- Someone 7y ago
  ”There where still customs between all members of EEC, except Belgium and The Netherlands” Nitpick: and Luxembourg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux)

vinay427 7y ago

Argh, and I thought Switzerland was confusing (though as a completely sovereign country it may still be near the top). These are on a whole different level.

lathiat 7y ago

CGP Grey has a great video: "The Difference between the United Kingdom, Great Britain and England Explained" which covers a lot of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10