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I really wish Apple would put something in place where you effectively have two user accounts. If you type your actually passcode, it's just your normal account
by woutr_be 7y ago
I really wish Apple would put something in place where you effectively have two user accounts. If you type your actually passcode, it's just your normal account. If you type another specific passcode, it's a burner account with minimal apps and information. It has enough info to make it look like it's being used, but nothing important.
Obviously border control would quickly know about this, but there's no way to verify.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago> there's no way to verify Obscuring in this manner likely counts as lying to a federal officer, particularly if they catch on and ask if this is your main profile.
- mrandish 7y agoINAL but I don't think that legally it would be lying. I believe lying requires more than not complying. Plus, we always have the right to remain silent.
- thenewnewguy 7y agoEven if true, border officials will start asking everyone "is this your main profile". I guess you could refuse to answer, but that will make the answer obvious.
- akhosravian 7y agoThe right to remain silent isn’t the right to intentionally lie.
- outworlder 7y ago> Plus, we always have the right to remain silent. No you don't. Not at the border.
- sneak 7y agoYour statement is untrue. You have the right to remain silent at the border as well.
- jdenning 7y agoYou absolutely do have the right to remain silent at the border.
- dodobirdlord 7y agoUntrue. People who crack jokes about "constitution free zones" at the border are just uninformed. There are some obvious broad waivers on searches to enable the enforcement of import/export and immigration laws, but other rights that don't relate to the particulars of border enforcement are not impacted.
- shkkmo 7y ago> There are some obvious broad waivers on searches to enable the enforcement of import/export and immigration laws Except those searches can be done at the behest of other law enforcement agencies and any information found can be shared with them.
- dodobirdlord 7y agoIncorrect. CBP has a policy to destroy any digital data collected during a search unless it is relevant to an investigation of customs/immigration crimes or is related to terrorism, which can be broadly construed as related to immigration law insomuch as one of the primary purposes of a border is to keep out unwanted persons. I recommend reading through this document assembled by the EFF about various kinds of border searches and the constitutionality thereof. https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017 https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017
- shkkmo 7y agoI fail to see anything in your link to back up your claim. Here's what the EFF does say about the CPB doing exactly what I described. > The evidence includes ICE and CBP policies and practices that authorize border officers to conduct warrantless and suspicionless device searches for purposes beyond the enforcement of immigration and customs laws. Officials can search devices for general law enforcement purposes, such as enforcing bankruptcy, environmental, and consumer protection laws, and for intelligence gathering or to advance pre-existing investigations. Officers also consider requests from other government agencies to search devices. In addition, the agencies assert the authority to search electronic devices when the subject of interest is someone other than the traveler—such as when the traveler is a journalist or scholar with foreign sources who are of interest to the U.S. government, or even when the traveler is the business partner of someone under investigation. Both agencies further allow officers to retain information from travelers’ electronic devices and share it with other government entities, including state, local, and foreign law enforcement agencies. https://www.eff.org/press/releases/new-documents-reveal-dhs-asserting-broad-unconstitutional-authority-search-travelers https://www.eff.org/press/releases/new-documents-reveal-dhs-...
- lmilcin 7y agoAny time you say to the officer something you know is not true is lying. It may not necessarily be immediately grounds to detaining or turning you from the border but it may cause further escalation. Never tell a lie to the police and never offer any information unless directly asked for it.
- xwdv 7y agoDoesn’t matter. If there’s truly no way to verify, there’s nothing they can do in a scalable way to determine people are lying about their main accounts. The only thing they can do is use fear to get you to comply, or make you doubt your deniable encryption scheme is truly secure. If they really wanted to could they find out? Perhaps. Maybe if they use CCTV footage and extract your phones screen and do comparisons or something. If you are an individual though who has done something to warrant that level of scrutiny, perhaps the additional crime of lying to a Fed isn’t a big deal compared to whatever crime you have done.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago> Doesn’t matter. If there’s truly no way to verify, there’s nothing they can do in a scalable way to determine people are lying about their main accounts. It doesn't have to be scalable; border control already isn't scalable and relies on uniformed officers making decisions on the spot. It's not hard to add additional point in training that says, "if a person has suspiciously empty phone and the phone is a model X, ask them to unlock the second account; if they refuse or pretend they don't have one, apply 3-30 hours of pressure". This would probably cover 99% of cases.
- sokoloff 7y agoYou’re literally describing a way to make it scalable.
- noident 7y agoAttempting to deceive CBP through hidden volumes and the like is not recommended. https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017 https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017
- DoubleGlazing 7y agoIt's worse than that in some cases. I used to work for a big 4 consulting firm and they had some horror stories about border device searches. The company policy for travel outside the EU was simple... Your own laptop would go into a server room and become a remote desktop host, you'd be given a blank laptop. When you got to your destination safely you'd call up IT who'd tell you where to download the VPN software and provide you login details. If asked why you laptop was blank by border agents you were instructed to give them a copy of the company IT policy. Which is all well and good border agents demand you go through the above process and log in to the VPN and then remote in to your own laptop. It happened on multiple occasions in several countries and in most cases the employee was deported after refusing to comply.
- sombremesa 7y agoIt might've been better to respond with the fact that you had only just received that laptop from the company, which was the truth.
- DoubleGlazing 7y agoA new clean laptop is in itself suspicious, especially if you are on a business trip. I think the expensive legal brains the company employs decided it is better to simply admit that they do it this way to stop border inspections. Better a deportation of a single employee rather than risk compromising their IT systems and data.
- draugadrotten 7y agoWhy did the big 4 consulting firm think that it was so important to hide the laptop data from the government during the border search?
- Moru 7y agoNot recommended to rely on in court but if your friend wants to borrow your phone, there are androids that can unlock to different accounts depending on what finger you use to unlock with the fingerprint sensor.
- meddlepal 7y agoYou can't beat the government or law with clever technological tricks. So you pull that stunt, then the border agent reminds you that lying to a federal border agent is a crime. You give a hesitant, non-confidant, shift your eyes wrong and you're detained. Heck they might even just detain you for shits and giggles because there is no repercussions to them. Have fun.
- woutr_be 7y agoSo your best bet is to just let the government invade your privacy? Or travel without your actual phone, and take some random cheap Android device?
- kmlx 7y agoor you could go out and Vote!
- woutr_be 7y agoHow do I vote against US policies if I’m not US based?
- jessicalondon 7y agoVote with your $/£/€/etc.
- woutr_be 7y agoHow does that work? You're saying I shouldn't travel to that specific country, correct?
- skunkworker 7y agoWell 1Password does have a "travel mode" https://support.1password.com/travel-mode/ https://support.1password.com/travel-mode/
- thelittleone 7y agoWouldn’t it be safer to: 1) Backup phone then reset to factory before flying 2) Restore once through customs.
- woutr_be 7y agoHave you tried to restore your phone? Especially while on LTE/3G or hotel WiFi? It's an absolute pain in the ass, takes a couple of hours, not to mention you have to set up Apple Pay again. Deal with 2FA changes because you can't back up Google Authenticator.
- rimliu 7y agoI did it each time I got new iPhone before "transfer data to the new device" was available. No issues.
- woutr_be 7y agoThat would imply having your other phone available. The original suggestion was to clean your phone, and then restore it from a backup. So the whole "transfer data to the new device" wouldn't work.
- geggam 7y agoUse authy for authentication https://authy.com/blog/authy-vs-google-authenticator/ https://authy.com/blog/authy-vs-google-authenticator/
- jiveturkey 7y agoThat's historically been referred to as as duress code. It would be exceptionally hard to make it look like the phone is being used with the 2nd account. For one thing, having current email would be pretty mandatory to pass a sniff test.