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Surfacing one of the comments from the article here since HN commenters (being primarily US/European) seems to exhibit similar views -- The thesis here bespeak

Surfacing one of the comments from the article here since HN commenters (being primarily US/European) seems to exhibit similar views -- The thesis here bespeaks of the very arrogance we have regarding "dealing" with China. China is a major world power. Its existence and growing economic prowess are not dependent upon our acceptance, investment or "good will". We continue to deal with China in an extremely condescending manner. To "deal" with China means we have to accept China for what it is; including that its political system is different from ours. It is not going to bend to our system of liberty and individual civil rights because we think that's the natural order of things. And in all frankness, our current political morass is hardly a paragon of virtue to which other should strive. We can choose to ignore China and attempt to isolate it. But that didn't work out so well when we tried it after 1949 did it? All these tariffs are accomplishing is incentivizing Chinese corporations to rapidly expand their production capabilities in facilities located in other nations. So in fact, we are financing China's increasing power and influence over both its neighbors and within the global economy. We're now at a point where China doesn't "need" us. So we simply have to decide whether we want to interrelate with another major world power as it is or move towards confrontation and chaos.

jimbo1qaz 7y ago
Issue is, China is attempting to to force its viewpoints on other nations, eg. by denying prize money to the winner of a tournament for speaking about Hong Kong, and something about NBA I didn't follow.
- chillacy 7y ago
  To be fair the US throws its weight around quite a bit on exporting its morality (human rights, democracy, freedom of speech, etc), and sometimes not to the best of results. I don't know if there's been any large political organization that wasn't super pushy about its world view. I think the issue is that its viewpoint is so different from America's. It's sort of like US politics, depending on who's in the white house the government can have a very different idea of reproductive rights, climate change, and religion/secularism. Those are big changes but China's morality is even more different. Suddenly criticizing the government is treated like hate speech.
  - remontoire 7y ago
    I 100% prefer the US pushing it's agenda over China.
  - throwawy4trueth 7y ago
    That's a great insight that almost no body in the world really notice: hate speech. Hate is a very good tool to consilidate public and create personal identity extreme efficiently. The technique is used by Hitler and also by CPP in early time maybe without rational calculation. After world war too hate speech is almost prohibited in all "civilized" countries. However there are 3 targets can be used without consequence: wall street bankers, politicians in Washington, rigemes usually are inferior in morality. The first 2 targets are virtual targets so they are used in election frequently. Not showing fighting spirit create personal identity by fooling people is a recipe for failure. Many politicians use the technique. Example: Rubio, Hillary, etc. China, Russia, are good target for boost support in election to show a fake hero image Hate is human nature from evolution because human , not like any other species, were evolved not only from other environmental pressure but also from war and killing each other. It boosts the fighting capability of a tribes and promote consolidation. That's why it exist at first place. War is also part of human nature. To find excuse to attack others , creating evil is a good way to get public support. Western journalists are doing this job very well by distorting the reality and mix their interpretation into selected facts in a very deceptive way. All the direct and proxy wars in last 20 years (Except Afghan) are approved by public because of their work. A good study of the topic should get nobel peace price. However, noble prize commitee itself has the same mentality as western journalists. A lot of winners a fake hero based on face value of commitees perception that eventually create more confilicts in the world.
semiotagonal 7y ago
If China has decided that its economic relationship with the US is contingent on American citizens (e.g. Morey, the NBA executive) not criticizing Chinese policy, then the economic relationship becomes impossible. Criticism cannot be stopped.
theferalrobot 7y ago
>China is a major world power. Its existence and growing economic prowess are not dependent upon our acceptance, investment or "good will". China is less than 15% of the world economy, 'the west' makes up a vast majority of the remaining 85%. If it is a war of values I don't think China really has a chance if they want to participate in the world market.
remarkEon 7y ago
>All these tariffs are accomplishing is incentivizing Chinese corporations to rapidly expand their production capabilities in facilities located in other nations. So in fact, we are financing China's increasing power and influence over both its neighbors and within the global economy. This is the same naivete that got us into this situation in the first place. What, are we "pot committed" and have to continue putting up with this behavior when it starts to actually affect our culture (or mine, since you are implying you're not from the US/Europe)? We don't have to keep financing any of this. We made a deliberate choice around two decades ago to outsource our manufacturing base to them. We can un-do this decision - it will be really expensive, and there will be short term pain for sure - but greater re-ordering of the global economy has happened in the past. Believe me, I'm more than willing to entertain arguments about how Hong Kong should be left alone and that is China's problem to deal with. But in my humble opinion - which I'm grateful that I can express without being censored - the US should make integration as painful as possible. If the cost of "China's Rise" is free speech in the US, then screw it. All bets are off. Edit: realizing that you copy-pasted a comment from the article itself, which I couldn't see because of ad-blockers.

jimbo1qaz 7y ago

Issue is, China is attempting to to force its viewpoints on other nations, eg. by denying prize money to the winner of a tournament for speaking about Hong Kong, and something about NBA I didn't follow.

chillacy 7y ago
To be fair the US throws its weight around quite a bit on exporting its morality (human rights, democracy, freedom of speech, etc), and sometimes not to the best of results. I don't know if there's been any large political organization that wasn't super pushy about its world view. I think the issue is that its viewpoint is so different from America's. It's sort of like US politics, depending on who's in the white house the government can have a very different idea of reproductive rights, climate change, and religion/secularism. Those are big changes but China's morality is even more different. Suddenly criticizing the government is treated like hate speech.
- remontoire 7y ago
  I 100% prefer the US pushing it's agenda over China.
- throwawy4trueth 7y ago
  That's a great insight that almost no body in the world really notice: hate speech. Hate is a very good tool to consilidate public and create personal identity extreme efficiently. The technique is used by Hitler and also by CPP in early time maybe without rational calculation. After world war too hate speech is almost prohibited in all "civilized" countries. However there are 3 targets can be used without consequence: wall street bankers, politicians in Washington, rigemes usually are inferior in morality. The first 2 targets are virtual targets so they are used in election frequently. Not showing fighting spirit create personal identity by fooling people is a recipe for failure. Many politicians use the technique. Example: Rubio, Hillary, etc. China, Russia, are good target for boost support in election to show a fake hero image Hate is human nature from evolution because human , not like any other species, were evolved not only from other environmental pressure but also from war and killing each other. It boosts the fighting capability of a tribes and promote consolidation. That's why it exist at first place. War is also part of human nature. To find excuse to attack others , creating evil is a good way to get public support. Western journalists are doing this job very well by distorting the reality and mix their interpretation into selected facts in a very deceptive way. All the direct and proxy wars in last 20 years (Except Afghan) are approved by public because of their work. A good study of the topic should get nobel peace price. However, noble prize commitee itself has the same mentality as western journalists. A lot of winners a fake hero based on face value of commitees perception that eventually create more confilicts in the world.

semiotagonal 7y ago

If China has decided that its economic relationship with the US is contingent on American citizens (e.g. Morey, the NBA executive) not criticizing Chinese policy, then the economic relationship becomes impossible. Criticism cannot be stopped.

theferalrobot 7y ago

>China is a major world power. Its existence and growing economic prowess are not dependent upon our acceptance, investment or "good will". China is less than 15% of the world economy, 'the west' makes up a vast majority of the remaining 85%. If it is a war of values I don't think China really has a chance if they want to participate in the world market.

remarkEon 7y ago

>All these tariffs are accomplishing is incentivizing Chinese corporations to rapidly expand their production capabilities in facilities located in other nations. So in fact, we are financing China's increasing power and influence over both its neighbors and within the global economy. This is the same naivete that got us into this situation in the first place. What, are we "pot committed" and have to continue putting up with this behavior when it starts to actually affect our culture (or mine, since you are implying you're not from the US/Europe)? We don't have to keep financing any of this. We made a deliberate choice around two decades ago to outsource our manufacturing base to them. We can un-do this decision - it will be really expensive, and there will be short term pain for sure - but greater re-ordering of the global economy has happened in the past. Believe me, I'm more than willing to entertain arguments about how Hong Kong should be left alone and that is China's problem to deal with. But in my humble opinion - which I'm grateful that I can express without being censored - the US should make integration as painful as possible. If the cost of "China's Rise" is free speech in the US, then screw it. All bets are off. Edit: realizing that you copy-pasted a comment from the article itself, which I couldn't see because of ad-blockers.