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This sounds familiar. Here's an article from 2 years ago saying the same thing: https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/7/16615290/waymo-self-driving-safety-driver-c

This sounds familiar. Here's an article from 2 years ago saying the same thing: https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/7/16615290/waymo-self-driving-safety-driver-chandler-autonomous https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/7/16615290/waymo-self-drivi... Hopefully this time it's the real deal. I remain skeptical.

anoncareer0212 7y ago
The difference here is that now the "public paying customers" and "full self-driving" customer groups are merged - so this means there's genuinely a paid full self-driving service launched as of today! A miracle
- Judgmentality 7y ago
  Calling this service public is misleading, especially since Waymo created the bifurcation between Waymo One (no NDA) and Early Riders (NDA). Both of these programs you have to apply for and be accepted, so neither is public. And Waymo has made no claim of merging these. The upcoming driverless rides Waymo refers to in this article could very well be for the Early Riders still under an NDA - which theoretically could already be happening based on their past announcements (although the abundance of cell phones strongly suggests this is not the case). This announcement is just a repeat of what they've said before. If they actually do it this time then that's great, but they haven't actually said anything new here.
  - anoncareer0212 7y ago
    The article says it's paying customers. Sorry you felt that was disingenuous! You're right, it's not public in that anyone can take a ride, your account has to be approved.
  - tigershark 7y ago
    Wait, what? Waymo does also some rides hailed via lyft, or are you saying that you have to apply also in lyft? If this is not a public service with paying customers then I don’t know one... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2019/06/27/waymo-starts-self-driving-pick-ups-for-lyft-riders/amp/ https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2019/06/27/way...
    - Judgmentality 7y ago
      I am unaware of anyone getting picked up in a self-driving car using Lyft (outside of Aptiv in Las Vegas and other testing that has nothing to do with Waymo). Although honestly I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong on this one, and there have been people that got picked up in a Waymo using Lyft, but a quick search on twitter and google shows up nothing (but I spent less than a minute searching just now and welcome being proven wrong). This just reinforces my point. Waymo can announce anything with vague terminology of things happening "soon" but we still don't have any verification of anything happening.
      - whyaduck 7y ago
        Lyft has been dispatching Waymo self-driving vans (with safety drivers) in Chandler AZ for a while now. I've opted out of Waymo for my occasional rides with Lyft, so I can't say how frequently they show up. But I can say there are lots of the vans running in the service area.
        xxxtentachyon 7y ago
        Why did you opt out?
        oarsinsync 7y ago
        Not the GP, but presumably because opting in to being a beta tester isn't something they're interested in, especially since the risks involved are less 'my app doesnt work' and more 'my life may stop working' if something goes wrong. Note that while that risk remains true of every transportation journey you take, there is a lot of press generated when an autonomous vehicle takes a life or causes injury, which plays a part in a lot of peoples decision making. Also note recent articles about automatic stop detection failing >50% of the time. This may or may not be relevant to AVs, but I personally would definitely not want to be in an AV that hit a child. That (theoretical) child's life is worth more than pushing driverless cars into the world before they're potentially ready.
        7y ago
cookie_monsta 7y ago
Agreed. FTA: > "are on the way" > "soon you may experience" Vague promises without any concrete dates attached make this seem like output from PR rather than engineering
- ehsankia 7y ago
  Except in the previous article, driverless rides were already happening: > since mid-October, the company has been operating its autonomous minivans on public roads in Arizona without a safety driver The difference is that those were without any users inside. This new article is saying that the public offering, with real customers inside, will get rides with no one inside. It is unfortunate that it took 2 years to get to the point where they felt safe putting people customers in the car, but it's very misleading to equate the two and use is as a way to imply they lied last time around.
  - cookie_monsta 7y ago
    > It is unfortunate that it took 2 years to get to the point where they felt safe putting people customers in the car Except they're not at that point yet, and even when they are they will still have a Waymo employee on board "initially". I don't think that anybody is accusing anybody of lying, just making the point that predictions of the marketing team aren't really something you would want to set your watch by.
    - ehsankia 7y ago
      > even when they are they will still have a Waymo employee on board "initially". I think you're confused. They've been having customer rides with employee in the car for almost a year now. The email sent to customers today is saying that they will soon find rides with no employee inside. And again, rides without employee inside have been happening also since 2017, just not with customers inside.
      - cookie_monsta 7y ago
        Maybe I am confused. I'm just going on what Waymo says. The point is that "soon" is meaningless in this context and Waymo very clearly states that "a Waymo employee would likely be present in the vehicle initially."

anoncareer0212 7y ago

The difference here is that now the "public paying customers" and "full self-driving" customer groups are merged - so this means there's genuinely a paid full self-driving service launched as of today! A miracle

Judgmentality 7y ago
Calling this service public is misleading, especially since Waymo created the bifurcation between Waymo One (no NDA) and Early Riders (NDA). Both of these programs you have to apply for and be accepted, so neither is public. And Waymo has made no claim of merging these. The upcoming driverless rides Waymo refers to in this article could very well be for the Early Riders still under an NDA - which theoretically could already be happening based on their past announcements (although the abundance of cell phones strongly suggests this is not the case). This announcement is just a repeat of what they've said before. If they actually do it this time then that's great, but they haven't actually said anything new here.
- anoncareer0212 7y ago
  The article says it's paying customers. Sorry you felt that was disingenuous! You're right, it's not public in that anyone can take a ride, your account has to be approved.
- tigershark 7y ago
  Wait, what? Waymo does also some rides hailed via lyft, or are you saying that you have to apply also in lyft? If this is not a public service with paying customers then I don’t know one... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2019/06/27/waymo-starts-self-driving-pick-ups-for-lyft-riders/amp/ https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2019/06/27/way...
  - Judgmentality 7y ago
    I am unaware of anyone getting picked up in a self-driving car using Lyft (outside of Aptiv in Las Vegas and other testing that has nothing to do with Waymo). Although honestly I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong on this one, and there have been people that got picked up in a Waymo using Lyft, but a quick search on twitter and google shows up nothing (but I spent less than a minute searching just now and welcome being proven wrong). This just reinforces my point. Waymo can announce anything with vague terminology of things happening "soon" but we still don't have any verification of anything happening.
    - whyaduck 7y ago
      Lyft has been dispatching Waymo self-driving vans (with safety drivers) in Chandler AZ for a while now. I've opted out of Waymo for my occasional rides with Lyft, so I can't say how frequently they show up. But I can say there are lots of the vans running in the service area.
      - xxxtentachyon 7y ago
        Why did you opt out?
        oarsinsync 7y ago
        Not the GP, but presumably because opting in to being a beta tester isn't something they're interested in, especially since the risks involved are less 'my app doesnt work' and more 'my life may stop working' if something goes wrong. Note that while that risk remains true of every transportation journey you take, there is a lot of press generated when an autonomous vehicle takes a life or causes injury, which plays a part in a lot of peoples decision making. Also note recent articles about automatic stop detection failing >50% of the time. This may or may not be relevant to AVs, but I personally would definitely not want to be in an AV that hit a child. That (theoretical) child's life is worth more than pushing driverless cars into the world before they're potentially ready.
        7y ago

cookie_monsta 7y ago

Agreed. FTA: > "are on the way" > "soon you may experience" Vague promises without any concrete dates attached make this seem like output from PR rather than engineering

ehsankia 7y ago
Except in the previous article, driverless rides were already happening: > since mid-October, the company has been operating its autonomous minivans on public roads in Arizona without a safety driver The difference is that those were without any users inside. This new article is saying that the public offering, with real customers inside, will get rides with no one inside. It is unfortunate that it took 2 years to get to the point where they felt safe putting people customers in the car, but it's very misleading to equate the two and use is as a way to imply they lied last time around.
- cookie_monsta 7y ago
  > It is unfortunate that it took 2 years to get to the point where they felt safe putting people customers in the car Except they're not at that point yet, and even when they are they will still have a Waymo employee on board "initially". I don't think that anybody is accusing anybody of lying, just making the point that predictions of the marketing team aren't really something you would want to set your watch by.
  - ehsankia 7y ago
    > even when they are they will still have a Waymo employee on board "initially". I think you're confused. They've been having customer rides with employee in the car for almost a year now. The email sent to customers today is saying that they will soon find rides with no employee inside. And again, rides without employee inside have been happening also since 2017, just not with customers inside.
    - cookie_monsta 7y ago
      Maybe I am confused. I'm just going on what Waymo says. The point is that "soon" is meaningless in this context and Waymo very clearly states that "a Waymo employee would likely be present in the vehicle initially."