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I've talked with a bunch of cranks and my experience resonates with this article. I believe in reasoned argument and persuasion, probably to a fault, but I neve

by knzhou 7y ago

I've talked with a bunch of cranks and my experience resonates with this article. I believe in reasoned argument and persuasion, probably to a fault, but I never managed to change any of their opinions in the slightest. One of them had a theory that every electron was made of two photons going round and round. After pointing out a few of the many problems with that he tracked down where I live to try to report me for "censorship".

throwaway2048 7y ago
You are only very rarely going to win over somebody committed to an irrational belief (who usually already holds it in plain contradiction to available facts) with logical arguments.
- girvo 7y ago
  Said simpler: you can use logic to get someone out of a position they didn’t use logic to get into
- sopooneo 7y ago
  I completely agree. But might some fraction of such people be “won over” by methods other than logic? Asking them how they got interested, perhaps, and drawing out what in their past caused them to become so obsessed? Or even by redefining the goal of the debate? It may be that I’m giving too much credit and most are truly hopeless. But so often with “people problems” I’ve seen approaches work beautifully and which in retrospect seem obvious. But in the moment I would never have thought up because I was considering things so narrowly.
  - knzhou 7y ago
    In my experience, most of these people are over twice my age and slip into condescension the second I stop laying down logical arguments. If I don't argue against them logically, they invariably walk away triumphant, thinking they've just educated some ignorant young man. It makes the problem worse, so I might as well not talk with them at all. In any case, their stories are all remarkably similar...
incompatible 7y ago
I think the best way of dealing with nonsense in Internet forums is to give a single reply, and then go away. Getting dragged into an ongoing "discussion" is unlikely to be worth the effort, since such people typically resort to rejecting evidence and making ad hominem attacks.

by knzhou 7y ago

throwaway2048 7y ago

You are only very rarely going to win over somebody committed to an irrational belief (who usually already holds it in plain contradiction to available facts) with logical arguments.

girvo 7y ago
Said simpler: you can use logic to get someone out of a position they didn’t use logic to get into
sopooneo 7y ago
I completely agree. But might some fraction of such people be “won over” by methods other than logic? Asking them how they got interested, perhaps, and drawing out what in their past caused them to become so obsessed? Or even by redefining the goal of the debate? It may be that I’m giving too much credit and most are truly hopeless. But so often with “people problems” I’ve seen approaches work beautifully and which in retrospect seem obvious. But in the moment I would never have thought up because I was considering things so narrowly.
- knzhou 7y ago
  In my experience, most of these people are over twice my age and slip into condescension the second I stop laying down logical arguments. If I don't argue against them logically, they invariably walk away triumphant, thinking they've just educated some ignorant young man. It makes the problem worse, so I might as well not talk with them at all. In any case, their stories are all remarkably similar...

incompatible 7y ago

I think the best way of dealing with nonsense in Internet forums is to give a single reply, and then go away. Getting dragged into an ongoing "discussion" is unlikely to be worth the effort, since such people typically resort to rejecting evidence and making ad hominem attacks.