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Theoretically, at least, I think that the two are inextricably linked. I don't think you can have neo-liberalism (an actually free free market) unless your mark

by dvt 7y ago

Theoretically, at least, I think that the two are inextricably linked. I don't think you can have neo-liberalism (an actually free free market) unless your markets live in a democratic law-abiding state.

ep103 7y ago
true, but I don't think you can have neo-liberalism, and do anything other than move away from a democratic law-abiding state, and towards a more authoritarian most-state-capitalist society
munk-a 7y ago
The golden goose of neo-liberalism has always been local free-democracy and political protections while offshoring the uglier parts of the free-market economy to regions where the local political system can't resist the pressures being imposed by corporations. Within the west the idea is that corporations (mostly) play nice and respect democracy while exploiting that abroad - I think that may have lasted for a month or so and then folks realized they could double dip and have been eroding political institution for the benefit of corporations both locally and abroad.
dmix 7y ago
Yep, almost all of the economically free countries are liberal democracies with strong independent courts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom There's a strong correlation between economic and social liberty, as well as with the average wealth, quality of life, and happiness of the general population. The fact Taiwan and HK are right next to China with ethnically and culturally similar people and were both way ahead of China economically and socially is no surprise. I often wonder how much more advanced the entire world would be if China didn't waste 50yrs trying their failed experiment and had skyrocketed to success like Japan, South Korea, HK, and Taiwan did long ago.
- maximente 7y ago
  one of the reasons Japan/Taiwan/SK's economies are so strong is because - you guessed it - China is a major importer of their produced goods. without disposable income they have gained from something over the last few decades, they aren't importing massive amounts of goods from their neighbors.
  - dmix 7y ago
    Now imagine if China opened up their market earlier and had fair independent courts and political systems where they could attract other country's companies, talent, and money 10x easier without fear of it being stolen or squeezed out. They'd all be doing even better.
duxup 7y ago
Yeah strong / independent courts and laws are absolutely required... for a lot of things really.

by dvt 7y ago

ep103 7y ago

true, but I don't think you can have neo-liberalism, and do anything other than move away from a democratic law-abiding state, and towards a more authoritarian most-state-capitalist society

munk-a 7y ago

The golden goose of neo-liberalism has always been local free-democracy and political protections while offshoring the uglier parts of the free-market economy to regions where the local political system can't resist the pressures being imposed by corporations. Within the west the idea is that corporations (mostly) play nice and respect democracy while exploiting that abroad - I think that may have lasted for a month or so and then folks realized they could double dip and have been eroding political institution for the benefit of corporations both locally and abroad.

dmix 7y ago

Yep, almost all of the economically free countries are liberal democracies with strong independent courts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom There's a strong correlation between economic and social liberty, as well as with the average wealth, quality of life, and happiness of the general population. The fact Taiwan and HK are right next to China with ethnically and culturally similar people and were both way ahead of China economically and socially is no surprise. I often wonder how much more advanced the entire world would be if China didn't waste 50yrs trying their failed experiment and had skyrocketed to success like Japan, South Korea, HK, and Taiwan did long ago.

maximente 7y ago
one of the reasons Japan/Taiwan/SK's economies are so strong is because - you guessed it - China is a major importer of their produced goods. without disposable income they have gained from something over the last few decades, they aren't importing massive amounts of goods from their neighbors.
- dmix 7y ago
  Now imagine if China opened up their market earlier and had fair independent courts and political systems where they could attract other country's companies, talent, and money 10x easier without fear of it being stolen or squeezed out. They'd all be doing even better.

duxup 7y ago

Yeah strong / independent courts and laws are absolutely required... for a lot of things really.