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Thank goodness someone is saying it "We are talking about hundreds of millions of days using the means we have available today. We must take care of our planet

Thank goodness someone is saying it "We are talking about hundreds of millions of days using the means we have available today. We must take care of our planet, it is very beautiful and still absolutely liveable." The 77-year-old said he felt the need to "kill all the statements that say 'OK, we will go to a liveable planet if one day life is not possible on earth'." "It's completely crazy," he added. You do the math on the energy, resource, and time requirements and it's pretty stark. Only 12 humans have set foot on a body other than the Earth. We have no permanent human settlements elsewhere in the solar system outside of low Earth orbit. We're more likely to set ourselves back hundreds of years in progress with warm or climate change.

devoply 7y ago
Humans live in stories not in reality. In modern times we have figured out how to sublimate reality with stories, but this process is as old as civilization and propaganda. So no matter how much stupid shit we do that makes no sense from any rational perspective we can tell a story about how it's good and make it all better. Then when someone like that 16 year old Thunberg girl tells a story that's against all the stories we have been telling we get angry about it going against progress, development, and technology... which are all stories of their own that obfuscate the fact that all of these things are not capable of co-existing with any sort of stable natural system here on earth... as they are meant to continuously destroy and recreate reality. They are in effect to turn reality into fantasy (we call it science fiction) by any means necessary.
- Uhuhreally 7y ago
  it's true that each of us usually lives in a story and we all live in a collective delusion. But. We all know the feeling in our own lives of suddenly waking up getting real.
  - devoply 7y ago
    You can't wake up as that's all also a story. It's turtles all the way down. All you can do is tell a different story, to change the script so to say. So far we have gone through a few scripts... Polytheism (many gods) -> Monotheism (one god) -> Economism (money is god and the way to reach god (get more money) is through science perhaps). We need to figure out the next story. I think Economism is terminal. There is no science and epistemology without their drivers. They are in fact the political economy. You can not divorce how they are used from politics.
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snarf21 7y ago
I don't even think it will come to this. The Earth has already starting fighting back. I think it is much more likely that we have massive loss of human life long before the planet becomes unlivable. Empty aquifers, food monoculture, and antibiotics overuse are going to come home to roost and we'll quickly learn what a sustainable population is.
shanxS 7y ago
Agree with all your points except that "never migrate to another planet" Humor me for a minute: (from strictly scientific view point) Universe began with just photons disintegrating to matter and anti-matter. Starting from that somehow proteins evolved and eventually animated matter (life). On a very boring planet after 5 complete extinctions of "animated matter", humans show up who have the audacity to attempt to understand beginning of universe and controlling the forces which created them. And now, you sir, suggest that this rudimentary life form will never be able to travel to an exo-planet and thrive. Well, to put it mildly, you are lacking perspective.
- ThrowawayR2 7y ago
  Ever notice how all the "Ya just gotta believe, man!" are largely non-technical SF fans whereas the people who say it's impossible are mostly scientists who are intimately familiar with the relevant science and engineering?
  - shanxS 7y ago
    Ever heard human flight was impossible? Ever heard that faster than sound was impossible? Ever heard splitting of atom was impossible? I understand that I might sound dreamy but here is the thing it's far better to believe, try and fail than to never believe.
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  - triceratops 7y ago
    There have always been scientists or natural philosophers or shamans (or whoever else was the most learned of their respective times) who have said "X is impossible" for some X. So far, they've always been proven wrong by a new discovery, often from an unrelated field, that somehow makes X possible. Are we so certain that it's different this time? Interstellar migration won't come soon enough to save us from the climate crisis, but to say it'll never happen is a strong statement.
  - 7y ago
ThrowawayR2 7y ago
> You do the math on the energy, resource, and time requirements and it's pretty stark. The SF author Charles Stross summarized the math on his blog a while ago (and got pilloried for it) and, yes, it's indeed bleak: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high_frontier_redux.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high...

devoply 7y ago

Humans live in stories not in reality. In modern times we have figured out how to sublimate reality with stories, but this process is as old as civilization and propaganda. So no matter how much stupid shit we do that makes no sense from any rational perspective we can tell a story about how it's good and make it all better. Then when someone like that 16 year old Thunberg girl tells a story that's against all the stories we have been telling we get angry about it going against progress, development, and technology... which are all stories of their own that obfuscate the fact that all of these things are not capable of co-existing with any sort of stable natural system here on earth... as they are meant to continuously destroy and recreate reality. They are in effect to turn reality into fantasy (we call it science fiction) by any means necessary.

Uhuhreally 7y ago
it's true that each of us usually lives in a story and we all live in a collective delusion. But. We all know the feeling in our own lives of suddenly waking up getting real.
- devoply 7y ago
  You can't wake up as that's all also a story. It's turtles all the way down. All you can do is tell a different story, to change the script so to say. So far we have gone through a few scripts... Polytheism (many gods) -> Monotheism (one god) -> Economism (money is god and the way to reach god (get more money) is through science perhaps). We need to figure out the next story. I think Economism is terminal. There is no science and epistemology without their drivers. They are in fact the political economy. You can not divorce how they are used from politics.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

snarf21 7y ago

I don't even think it will come to this. The Earth has already starting fighting back. I think it is much more likely that we have massive loss of human life long before the planet becomes unlivable. Empty aquifers, food monoculture, and antibiotics overuse are going to come home to roost and we'll quickly learn what a sustainable population is.

shanxS 7y ago

Agree with all your points except that "never migrate to another planet" Humor me for a minute: (from strictly scientific view point) Universe began with just photons disintegrating to matter and anti-matter. Starting from that somehow proteins evolved and eventually animated matter (life). On a very boring planet after 5 complete extinctions of "animated matter", humans show up who have the audacity to attempt to understand beginning of universe and controlling the forces which created them. And now, you sir, suggest that this rudimentary life form will never be able to travel to an exo-planet and thrive. Well, to put it mildly, you are lacking perspective.

ThrowawayR2 7y ago
Ever notice how all the "Ya just gotta believe, man!" are largely non-technical SF fans whereas the people who say it's impossible are mostly scientists who are intimately familiar with the relevant science and engineering?
- shanxS 7y ago
  Ever heard human flight was impossible? Ever heard that faster than sound was impossible? Ever heard splitting of atom was impossible? I understand that I might sound dreamy but here is the thing it's far better to believe, try and fail than to never believe.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- triceratops 7y ago
  There have always been scientists or natural philosophers or shamans (or whoever else was the most learned of their respective times) who have said "X is impossible" for some X. So far, they've always been proven wrong by a new discovery, often from an unrelated field, that somehow makes X possible. Are we so certain that it's different this time? Interstellar migration won't come soon enough to save us from the climate crisis, but to say it'll never happen is a strong statement.
- 7y ago

ThrowawayR2 7y ago

> You do the math on the energy, resource, and time requirements and it's pretty stark. The SF author Charles Stross summarized the math on his blog a while ago (and got pilloried for it) and, yes, it's indeed bleak: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high_frontier_redux.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high...