6 ms·

From rags to Richer: A business success story built on treating people well

119 points by js2 7y ago

neonate 7y ago
https://outline.com/WBeYRT https://outline.com/WBeYRT
- pmarreck 7y ago
  Thank you!
Ididntdothis 7y ago
“we have more than enough already”. I wish more people would adopt that attitude.
- dwoozle 7y ago
  Individual business owners often have that attitude. It’s when they go public that the profits are not also linked to the social standing of the owner and the appetite for dollars runs away.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  I had suggested that possibility in a recent thread about a niche of businesses that dont continue in perpetuity and the consensus here was nobody walks away from a money making business so therefore we have to assume the businesses were financial disasters for the founders and equity holders
- cscurmudgeon 7y ago
  Couldn't read that behind the pay wall. Meanwhile: https://www.economistgroup.com/results_and_governance/results_at_a_glance.html https://www.economistgroup.com/results_and_governance/result...
  - johnr2 7y ago
    > Couldn't read that behind the pay wall. Works fine here in Dillo (no JS support) and Firefox with NoScript.
- ssivark 7y ago
  Here's a poetic eulogy written by Kurt Vonnegut for his friend Joe Heller. (HN messes up formatting, but it reads well as prose) --- JOE HELLER True story, Word of Honor: Joseph Heller, an important and funny writer now dead, and I were at a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island. I said, “Joe, how does it make you feel to know that our host only yesterday may have made more money than your novel ‘Catch-22’ has earned in its entire history?” And Joe said, “I’ve got something he can never have.” And I said, “What on earth could that be, Joe?” And Joe said, “The knowledge that I’ve got enough.” Not bad! Rest in peace!
NotAnEconomist 7y ago
Setting aside the morality -- which is its own reason to treat people well -- it's damnably effective. Something I got from a book on negotiating: It doesn't matter how good of a negotiator you are, if you develop a reputation for being a jerk, you're going to fail. Why? Because for every room you're in being the best negotiator, your reputation is in ten, negotiating the other way and talking you out of deals you didn't even know about. Conversely, if you develop a reputation for being a reliable partner and a fair dealer, then your reputation will do the hard work for you. People will talk you into deals without your input, because they want to work with people like that.
- baron816 7y ago
  I have a theory that women don’t like to negotiate because they think negotiating requires them to be tough and mean. But really, if you’re affable and charismatic when trying to make a deal, which should come more naturally to most women, then you would be in good shape.
- gao8a 7y ago
  This. Winning is not how can I rip em off. Winning is a feeling of fairness in all parties and repeat business.
folkhack 7y ago
I'm a proponent of this mentality of investing in your people. I'm a huge Louis Rossmann fan because I feel he builds his business in a way that puts his people first. Recently this was clear when one of his board repair specialists got hurt in a hit-and-run accident (was literally ran over by a truck). The way that Louis is taking care of his employee is nothing short of inspiring to me. As I understand from the videos, he's covering his salary during recovery, has supported him in the legal case, is accommodating his injuries by sourcing very expensive special equipment (microscope), and has visited him multiple times in the hospital. He'll sit on camera saying "I'm a tough boss, I'm hard to work for" etc. While I'm certain that's true I just see it as high expectations + wanting to retain top performers. Nothing wrong with that when you put your money where your mouth is and treat your team like family IMO. I'd kill to have a boss like that because that's a person I'd be happy to get behind and support!
- EricE 7y ago
  Yes, Louis is the real deal. Authenticity counts. I'm always astonished at the excuses people make for bad behavior as being "normal". Just look at what he went through with real estate brokers looking for a new storefront. It's no accident he ended up taking a space that was brought to him from a broker (Alan) that had a similar philosophy as to him. That so many people went and hunted Alan down shouldn't have surprised him - people crave authenticity, even if they don't know what it is. Like him or not, a huge factor in Trump's success is he's Trump. What you see is what you get, warts and all. It may be ugly by most people's standards, but it's authentic. A candidate keeping campaign promises? What?!? One would think it would be easier to be authentic but apparently for politician/authenticity is the same as vampire/holy water. Always doing the right thing often isn't the easiest path in the short term. However in the long term it's invaluable. One of the favorite phrases Jude Judy tossed around is "if you always tell the truth you don't have to remember!" - there's a lot of depth and truth there (and I'm sure she got it from somewhere else, I just heard her say it multiple times).
gumby 7y ago
I often see the word “company” and “corporation” used interchangeably. But a corporation is just a machine invented by humans; a “company” is a group of people. A company, of run properly, is a great way to get people together to accomplish a complex objective. A corporation is merely one of the tools they use. If you think of people / companions (same roots) as, you know, actual humans, your business will typically be more effective.
- ksdale 7y ago
  Your point is well taken, but in the US, at least, a limited liability company is also an entity that you can form like a corporation, or a partnership, so the words don't necessarily conform to their dictionary definitions and are, perhaps, more interchangeable than you suggest. I also think there's a broad divide in the world between those who think that corporations are dehumanizing and those who think of them as simply a group of people, like the dictionary definition of a company.
  - redtexture 7y ago
    A company is a partnership of individuals, on many dimensions, legal and otherwise.
- EricE 7y ago
  >I often see the word “company” and “corporation” used interchangeably. But a corporation is just a machine invented by humans; a “company” is a group of people. Same thing applies to government :)
js2 7y ago
Another company renowned for treating its employees well is Patagonia. The founder, Yvon Chouinard, wrote a book about it ("Let My People Go Surfing") and speaks about it here: https://youtu.be/EHS2X-KoN_w https://youtu.be/EHS2X-KoN_w (edited version) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHS2X-KoN_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHS2X-KoN_w (full version) I can't think of any other companies off the top of my head, but I'm hope there are plenty that I'm just ignorant about.
WalterBright 7y ago
Of course. The most successful businesses are ones that give people what they want. The same goes for how you treat your employees. It's why slavery is hopelessly unable to compete with free markets.
- Judgmentality 7y ago
  > It's why slavery is hopelessly unable to compete with free markets. This sounds incredibly wrong, but obviously as someone who finds slavery morally reprehensible I would love for it to be true. There are so many industries that, as far as I can tell, could never have begun without slave labor - tobacco being the obvious one that created a boon for the burgeoning United States. Sugar cane in Brazil is a modern example. Chocolate from the Ivory Coast is also interesting, because there is fair trade chocolate you can buy - the fair trade chocolate is a rounding error compared to the industry as a whole. If you're trying to produce a product in bulk that doesn't require highly trained employees, how would slavery not help your bottom line?
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    > This sounds incredibly wrong I know it's not the conventional wisdom, but read up on the economies of the US free Northern states and the slave Southern states. The failing southern economy juxtaposed with the prosperous north was a major factor leading to war. > how would slavery not help your bottom line? 1. slaves hate you, and would like to kill you 2. slaves will do as little as possible 3. slaves will not make any constructive suggestions 4. slaves will run away 5. slaves will require armed guards 6. slaves will sabotage your operation at every opportunity 7. slaves will spit in your food (and much, much worse) 8. slave economies tend to make it illegal to educate slaves, even illegal to teach them to read, making them very unproductive 9. you wouldn't want to be in a room with a few of them without armed guards
    - Judgmentality 7y ago
      Without more evidence, I think we just have to agree to disagree. I believe everything you've listed is a second-order effect, and depending on the situation (such as sugar cane in Brazil) many of them do not even apply at all. The sugar cane example is so unique I'm not sure any of them apply, the only one I think might is #8. If you have Netflix and are interested, watch season 2 episode 3 of Rotten. There are other episodes on other industries as well involving what is essentially slave labor that I believe do not apply to many of your rules as well. I am not saying slavery is always the best way to get an edge in a competitive market, but sometimes it is. Otherwise, why would people still be using it today? There are literally billions of dollars to be made every year in multiple industries if what you're saying is true.

119 points by js2 7y ago

neonate 7y ago

https://outline.com/WBeYRT https://outline.com/WBeYRT

pmarreck 7y ago
Thank you!

Ididntdothis 7y ago

“we have more than enough already”. I wish more people would adopt that attitude.

dwoozle 7y ago
Individual business owners often have that attitude. It’s when they go public that the profits are not also linked to the social standing of the owner and the appetite for dollars runs away.
rolltiide 7y ago
I had suggested that possibility in a recent thread about a niche of businesses that dont continue in perpetuity and the consensus here was nobody walks away from a money making business so therefore we have to assume the businesses were financial disasters for the founders and equity holders
cscurmudgeon 7y ago
Couldn't read that behind the pay wall. Meanwhile: https://www.economistgroup.com/results_and_governance/results_at_a_glance.html https://www.economistgroup.com/results_and_governance/result...
- johnr2 7y ago
  > Couldn't read that behind the pay wall. Works fine here in Dillo (no JS support) and Firefox with NoScript.
ssivark 7y ago
Here's a poetic eulogy written by Kurt Vonnegut for his friend Joe Heller. (HN messes up formatting, but it reads well as prose) --- JOE HELLER True story, Word of Honor: Joseph Heller, an important and funny writer now dead, and I were at a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island. I said, “Joe, how does it make you feel to know that our host only yesterday may have made more money than your novel ‘Catch-22’ has earned in its entire history?” And Joe said, “I’ve got something he can never have.” And I said, “What on earth could that be, Joe?” And Joe said, “The knowledge that I’ve got enough.” Not bad! Rest in peace!

NotAnEconomist 7y ago

Setting aside the morality -- which is its own reason to treat people well -- it's damnably effective. Something I got from a book on negotiating: It doesn't matter how good of a negotiator you are, if you develop a reputation for being a jerk, you're going to fail. Why? Because for every room you're in being the best negotiator, your reputation is in ten, negotiating the other way and talking you out of deals you didn't even know about. Conversely, if you develop a reputation for being a reliable partner and a fair dealer, then your reputation will do the hard work for you. People will talk you into deals without your input, because they want to work with people like that.

baron816 7y ago
I have a theory that women don’t like to negotiate because they think negotiating requires them to be tough and mean. But really, if you’re affable and charismatic when trying to make a deal, which should come more naturally to most women, then you would be in good shape.
gao8a 7y ago
This. Winning is not how can I rip em off. Winning is a feeling of fairness in all parties and repeat business.

folkhack 7y ago

I'm a proponent of this mentality of investing in your people. I'm a huge Louis Rossmann fan because I feel he builds his business in a way that puts his people first. Recently this was clear when one of his board repair specialists got hurt in a hit-and-run accident (was literally ran over by a truck). The way that Louis is taking care of his employee is nothing short of inspiring to me. As I understand from the videos, he's covering his salary during recovery, has supported him in the legal case, is accommodating his injuries by sourcing very expensive special equipment (microscope), and has visited him multiple times in the hospital. He'll sit on camera saying "I'm a tough boss, I'm hard to work for" etc. While I'm certain that's true I just see it as high expectations + wanting to retain top performers. Nothing wrong with that when you put your money where your mouth is and treat your team like family IMO. I'd kill to have a boss like that because that's a person I'd be happy to get behind and support!

EricE 7y ago
Yes, Louis is the real deal. Authenticity counts. I'm always astonished at the excuses people make for bad behavior as being "normal". Just look at what he went through with real estate brokers looking for a new storefront. It's no accident he ended up taking a space that was brought to him from a broker (Alan) that had a similar philosophy as to him. That so many people went and hunted Alan down shouldn't have surprised him - people crave authenticity, even if they don't know what it is. Like him or not, a huge factor in Trump's success is he's Trump. What you see is what you get, warts and all. It may be ugly by most people's standards, but it's authentic. A candidate keeping campaign promises? What?!? One would think it would be easier to be authentic but apparently for politician/authenticity is the same as vampire/holy water. Always doing the right thing often isn't the easiest path in the short term. However in the long term it's invaluable. One of the favorite phrases Jude Judy tossed around is "if you always tell the truth you don't have to remember!" - there's a lot of depth and truth there (and I'm sure she got it from somewhere else, I just heard her say it multiple times).

gumby 7y ago

I often see the word “company” and “corporation” used interchangeably. But a corporation is just a machine invented by humans; a “company” is a group of people. A company, of run properly, is a great way to get people together to accomplish a complex objective. A corporation is merely one of the tools they use. If you think of people / companions (same roots) as, you know, actual humans, your business will typically be more effective.

ksdale 7y ago
Your point is well taken, but in the US, at least, a limited liability company is also an entity that you can form like a corporation, or a partnership, so the words don't necessarily conform to their dictionary definitions and are, perhaps, more interchangeable than you suggest. I also think there's a broad divide in the world between those who think that corporations are dehumanizing and those who think of them as simply a group of people, like the dictionary definition of a company.
- redtexture 7y ago
  A company is a partnership of individuals, on many dimensions, legal and otherwise.
EricE 7y ago
>I often see the word “company” and “corporation” used interchangeably. But a corporation is just a machine invented by humans; a “company” is a group of people. Same thing applies to government :)

js2 7y ago

Another company renowned for treating its employees well is Patagonia. The founder, Yvon Chouinard, wrote a book about it ("Let My People Go Surfing") and speaks about it here: https://youtu.be/EHS2X-KoN_w https://youtu.be/EHS2X-KoN_w (edited version) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHS2X-KoN_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHS2X-KoN_w (full version) I can't think of any other companies off the top of my head, but I'm hope there are plenty that I'm just ignorant about.

WalterBright 7y ago

Of course. The most successful businesses are ones that give people what they want. The same goes for how you treat your employees. It's why slavery is hopelessly unable to compete with free markets.

Judgmentality 7y ago
> It's why slavery is hopelessly unable to compete with free markets. This sounds incredibly wrong, but obviously as someone who finds slavery morally reprehensible I would love for it to be true. There are so many industries that, as far as I can tell, could never have begun without slave labor - tobacco being the obvious one that created a boon for the burgeoning United States. Sugar cane in Brazil is a modern example. Chocolate from the Ivory Coast is also interesting, because there is fair trade chocolate you can buy - the fair trade chocolate is a rounding error compared to the industry as a whole. If you're trying to produce a product in bulk that doesn't require highly trained employees, how would slavery not help your bottom line?
- WalterBright 7y ago
  > This sounds incredibly wrong I know it's not the conventional wisdom, but read up on the economies of the US free Northern states and the slave Southern states. The failing southern economy juxtaposed with the prosperous north was a major factor leading to war. > how would slavery not help your bottom line? 1. slaves hate you, and would like to kill you 2. slaves will do as little as possible 3. slaves will not make any constructive suggestions 4. slaves will run away 5. slaves will require armed guards 6. slaves will sabotage your operation at every opportunity 7. slaves will spit in your food (and much, much worse) 8. slave economies tend to make it illegal to educate slaves, even illegal to teach them to read, making them very unproductive 9. you wouldn't want to be in a room with a few of them without armed guards
  - Judgmentality 7y ago
    Without more evidence, I think we just have to agree to disagree. I believe everything you've listed is a second-order effect, and depending on the situation (such as sugar cane in Brazil) many of them do not even apply at all. The sugar cane example is so unique I'm not sure any of them apply, the only one I think might is #8. If you have Netflix and are interested, watch season 2 episode 3 of Rotten. There are other episodes on other industries as well involving what is essentially slave labor that I believe do not apply to many of your rules as well. I am not saying slavery is always the best way to get an edge in a competitive market, but sometimes it is. Otherwise, why would people still be using it today? There are literally billions of dollars to be made every year in multiple industries if what you're saying is true.