4 ms·

Oh right I forgot the EU stands up to Saudi arabia

simion314 7y ago
The point is that if you think US is at war with China for human rights you are really naive or you have some interest/bias. Any clear mind can see this is all for economic reasons and bringing human rights topic in this discussion makes it so US appears hypocritical and it's spine made from dollar bills.
- CardenB 7y ago
  You can fight China on human rights without fighting everyone on human rights. Why let perfect be the enemy of the good? Should we support china simply because we haven't fought Saudi Arabia on this?
  - simion314 7y ago
    Can you link me to the Trump human right demands?
- tathougies 7y ago
  No I don't think the US is at (economic) war with China for human rights. The US is at war with China for economic reasons. It also happens to hurt China at a time China is particularly egregiously violating human rights, so it's a double win for the US. Why the EU won't grow a similarly economically convenient spine is anyone's guess. China is a far bigger threat than Saudi Arabia ever was anyway. Moreover, to the Trump administration's credit, they are trying to remove foreign dependence on oil. You can believe that once this is achieved or another suitable energy store is found, Saudi Arabia will be the next economy to collapse under the weight of being unable to sell to anyone.
  - simion314 7y ago
    The freaking US government did not mentioned the human rights so I am not sure why you try to insinuate that human rights are even a slight reason why this conflict is happening. I can only assume that many US citizens dislike the idea to become citizens to the no 2 country in the world so anything goes , including false things.
    - filoleg 7y ago
      The parent commenter has never said that human rights were a reason for the conflict happening. They essentially just said that human rights issues in China being addressed alongside this economic war is a nice and convenient bonus.
      - simion314 7y ago
        It would be a nice bonus if something positive would come of it, It is not a bonus for the "US has a spine" spin OP presented. Is like I pay someone to help an old lady to cross the street and you start praising him and ignore the fact he never would have done it without the money. The guy has no fucking virtue and if he now makes a selfie of himself helping the lady and pointing fingers at others is ... deceitful , but maybe the guy is so narcissistic that in his own mind he is an actual virtuous man, helping old ladies only when he has something to gain.
    - tathougies 7y ago
      I am not insinuating that human rights are a reason the conflict it's happening. I just said I think it's nice that these sanctions hurt china at a time they are violating human rights. That's a completely different statement. Please read.
      - simion314 7y ago
        Then we are off topic, it all started by accusing some countries that don't have a spine what I interpreted as a moral spine and not geo/political/economical related stuff with the bonus of hurting people you dislike.
- themacguffinman 7y ago
  So what? Dollar bills make for pretty good spines. I'll take it over the EU's lack of one.
  - simion314 7y ago
    Can you quote some official document from US that even mentions a single human right demand? Because if you refer on some keyboard worries on twitter then there are probably EU worriers too though they might not be a CEO of a big company that seeks a bit of PR points..
    - themacguffinman 7y ago
      Sure, Congress is in the process of passing the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act of 2019 [1] with the stated goal of "countering the totalitarian Chinese government’s widespread and horrific human rights abuses" [2]. The State Department published the 2018 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices [3] which openly documents China's many human rights issues, issues that China is trying to censor and challenge. The State Department has additionally announced visa restrictions on Chinese officials suspected of being involved in the detention and human rights abuses of millions of Uyghur Muslims and other minority groups. From the CNN article [4] (Pompeo is the US Secretary of State): > "The United States calls on the People's Republic of China to immediately end its campaign of repression in Xinjiang, release all those arbitrarily detained, and cease efforts to coerce members of Chinese Muslim minority groups residing abroad to return to China to face an uncertain fate," Pompeo wrote. "The United States will continue to review its authorities to respond to these abuses." I'd love to see similar actions taken by the EU and EU member states. If you have any examples of EU action already, you should post them because I may have missed news about it. [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/178/text?format=txt https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/178... [2] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3026982/us-passes-uygur-human-rights-policy-act-calling-sanctions https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3026982/us-... [3] https://www.state.gov/reports/2018-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/china-includes-tibet-hong-kong-and-macau-china/ https://www.state.gov/reports/2018-country-reports-on-human-... [4] https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/08/politics/xinjiang-visa-restrictions-state-department/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/08/politics/xinjiang-visa-restri...

The point is that if you think US is at war with China for human rights you are really naive or you have some interest/bias. Any clear mind can see this is all for economic reasons and bringing human rights topic in this discussion makes it so US appears hypocritical and it's spine made from dollar bills.

CardenB 7y ago
You can fight China on human rights without fighting everyone on human rights. Why let perfect be the enemy of the good? Should we support china simply because we haven't fought Saudi Arabia on this?
- simion314 7y ago
  Can you link me to the Trump human right demands?
tathougies 7y ago
No I don't think the US is at (economic) war with China for human rights. The US is at war with China for economic reasons. It also happens to hurt China at a time China is particularly egregiously violating human rights, so it's a double win for the US. Why the EU won't grow a similarly economically convenient spine is anyone's guess. China is a far bigger threat than Saudi Arabia ever was anyway. Moreover, to the Trump administration's credit, they are trying to remove foreign dependence on oil. You can believe that once this is achieved or another suitable energy store is found, Saudi Arabia will be the next economy to collapse under the weight of being unable to sell to anyone.
- simion314 7y ago
  The freaking US government did not mentioned the human rights so I am not sure why you try to insinuate that human rights are even a slight reason why this conflict is happening. I can only assume that many US citizens dislike the idea to become citizens to the no 2 country in the world so anything goes , including false things.
  - filoleg 7y ago
    The parent commenter has never said that human rights were a reason for the conflict happening. They essentially just said that human rights issues in China being addressed alongside this economic war is a nice and convenient bonus.
    - simion314 7y ago
      It would be a nice bonus if something positive would come of it, It is not a bonus for the "US has a spine" spin OP presented. Is like I pay someone to help an old lady to cross the street and you start praising him and ignore the fact he never would have done it without the money. The guy has no fucking virtue and if he now makes a selfie of himself helping the lady and pointing fingers at others is ... deceitful , but maybe the guy is so narcissistic that in his own mind he is an actual virtuous man, helping old ladies only when he has something to gain.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    I am not insinuating that human rights are a reason the conflict it's happening. I just said I think it's nice that these sanctions hurt china at a time they are violating human rights. That's a completely different statement. Please read.
    - simion314 7y ago
      Then we are off topic, it all started by accusing some countries that don't have a spine what I interpreted as a moral spine and not geo/political/economical related stuff with the bonus of hurting people you dislike.
themacguffinman 7y ago
So what? Dollar bills make for pretty good spines. I'll take it over the EU's lack of one.
- simion314 7y ago
  Can you quote some official document from US that even mentions a single human right demand? Because if you refer on some keyboard worries on twitter then there are probably EU worriers too though they might not be a CEO of a big company that seeks a bit of PR points..
  - themacguffinman 7y ago
    Sure, Congress is in the process of passing the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act of 2019 [1] with the stated goal of "countering the totalitarian Chinese government’s widespread and horrific human rights abuses" [2]. The State Department published the 2018 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices [3] which openly documents China's many human rights issues, issues that China is trying to censor and challenge. The State Department has additionally announced visa restrictions on Chinese officials suspected of being involved in the detention and human rights abuses of millions of Uyghur Muslims and other minority groups. From the CNN article [4] (Pompeo is the US Secretary of State): > "The United States calls on the People's Republic of China to immediately end its campaign of repression in Xinjiang, release all those arbitrarily detained, and cease efforts to coerce members of Chinese Muslim minority groups residing abroad to return to China to face an uncertain fate," Pompeo wrote. "The United States will continue to review its authorities to respond to these abuses." I'd love to see similar actions taken by the EU and EU member states. If you have any examples of EU action already, you should post them because I may have missed news about it. [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/178/text?format=txt https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/178... [2] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3026982/us-passes-uygur-human-rights-policy-act-calling-sanctions https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3026982/us-... [3] https://www.state.gov/reports/2018-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/china-includes-tibet-hong-kong-and-macau-china/ https://www.state.gov/reports/2018-country-reports-on-human-... [4] https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/08/politics/xinjiang-visa-restrictions-state-department/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/08/politics/xinjiang-visa-restri...