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Epic CEO says it won't ban Fortnite players for taking a stance on human rights
- philliphaydon 7y agoEpic CEO says a lot of stuff he doesn’t mean or live up to.
- randylahey 7y agoCan you elaborate?
- haunter 7y ago"Microsoft wants to monopolise games development on PC. We must fight it" by Tim Sweeney in 2016 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/04/microsoft-monopolise-pc-games-development-epic-games-gears-of-war https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/04/microsoft... 3 years later ends up buying out indie games and puts them behind exclusivity on the Epic Store On Linux gaming "The real enemy of Linux are these trolls who try to overrun social media channels to make claims in bad faith and attempt to harass developers into compliance. They’re scaring lots of good game developers away." https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1150521599633874949 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/115052159963387494... About dev cuts: In January "This is the only practicable way to operate a 12% fee store in developing countries." https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1091025939109199879 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/109102593910919987... 5 months later: “If Valve commits to a permanent 88% revenue share, we’ll stop making new exclusive deals” https://www.dsogaming.com/news/tim-sweeney-if-valve-commits-to-a-permanent-88-revenue-share-well-stop-all-exclusive-deals/ https://www.dsogaming.com/news/tim-sweeney-if-valve-commits-... etc. Tim Sweeney is an interesting person, like a weathervane
- pvg 7y agoThe Epic store thing would be analogous if Epic made Windows, which they don't - there isn't a contradiction in Sweeney's position here whatever one might think of the merits of the Epic store.
- Reedx 7y agoThis is really disingenuous. You're removing context, cherry picking and inserting your own context to create a false narrative. Why?
- deminature 7y agoIt's popular to hate Sweeney and Epic within the gaming community at the moment.
- cameronbrown 7y agoBecause they've done a very shitty thing.
- nailer 7y agoHave exclusives on their store, or something else?
- bloody-crow 7y agoCould you elaborate? I've seen a lot of arguments along those lines, but none were willing to actually explain what it is exactly they're doing that is wrong.
- belltaco 7y agoFor some reason Valve seems to have a lot of very rabid fans on Reddit, from many many years. Valve gets a free pass for showing annoying ads on every Steam update while being a paid service and also for their forced 30% cut and essentially being a monopoly. All the while barely improving the product for years while making billions from the cash cow. When I saw Epic was jumping into the fray I figured there'd be vicious backlash and handwringing from the community for minor things and wasn't surprised at all.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y agoValve advertises games on a platform that sells games and only does it when you start Steam. 30% is standard. They're a de-facto monopoly because they basically invented the market and no one has managed to do better, they have not engaged in anti-competitive practices and in fact allow people to sell Steam keys for their game on other storefronts without paying Valve at all.
- slavik81 7y agoThose last two quotes sound consistent to me. If Valve could operate on a 12% cut without exclusives, that would prove him was wrong that it's impossible, thus he would change his position if they did so.
- nickthegreek 7y agoEven if that is true, they are at least on the record now with a position and I do feel like that is important. I would hope to see other game companies make these statements as well.
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- nvrspyx 7y agoIf EPIC backtracks on something their CEO said, it wouldn’t be the first time. Tim Sweeney consistently makes a fool of himself and his statements turn out to be completely false pretty often. I wouldn’t take anything he says either seriously or as an actual position of the company.
- ahupp 7y agoCan you give an example?
- philliphaydon 7y agoHe slammed Microsoft store for being basic and incomplete, then released the epic store basic and incomplete. He promised transparency on the epic store then made the trello board private after a month, and decided to not be transparent at all.
- jplayer01 7y agoStatements mean and accomplish nothing. I thought after decades of being fucked over and lied to by corporations, maybe the public would become a bit more suspicious of people like this, but I guess not.
- rifung 7y agoIndeed, actions speak louder than words, but in this specific case, making a public statement is itself a very significant action. After all, it was nothing but public statements that are the center of the controversy.
- duxup 7y agoThere's a real risk for just saying something at this point. Thus lip-service like this is itself more than "just lip service".
- werber 7y agoI'm a total cynic, and do not care about video games or sports, but this does seem like he's taking on a legitimate financial risk in lieu of all the articles bubbling up about the situation
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- spathi_fwiffo 7y agoGaining some goodwill for the Epic Store. Now Valve needs to take the same stance to get back to the status quo.
- tapoxi 7y agoThey won't. Valve has a huge presence in China, Epic doesn't.
- Konnstann 7y agoIsn't 40% of Epic owned by Tencent?
- jsgo 7y agoWhat're they going to do? Sell their stake?
- devy 7y agoThey will fire the CEO.
- Phillipharryt 7y agoThe CEO Tim Sweeney has a majority ownership so can outvote Tencent, and the board is in his favour. It won't happen.
- ticmasta 7y agoWith what shareholder majority?
- Phillipharryt 7y agoTo clarify, shareholders don't vote to fire a CEO, so a majority is only tangentially important. The board votes on these sorts of decisions, however shareholders vote on nominations for board members -that are put forward by a seperate committee. So essentially no one on the board sits there without Sweeney's approval right now (because he holds the majority of shares, and presumably would have voted against people he doesn't approve of). Even if Tencent had a majority right now, unless the nomination committee had previously put forward board members that strongly favoured Tencent, and therefore gave them a good portion of board votes, then it would be effectively useless. There are technically ways you can make certain seats on the board have a larger weight in voting, but I don't know Epic's specifics and am going to assume it's pretty standard.
- Gonzih 7y agoIs that the same company that recently was in the news due to brutal workloads and work hours?
- sharkjacobs 7y agoThey're a videogame company, so probably.
- goatinaboat 7y agoYes but that is orthogonal to this
- gbear605 7y agoMost videogame companies are like that. It is definitely horrible, but the company's attitude toward its employees' work hours is unrelated to its attitude toward China.
- oarsinsync 7y agoUnless you take the view that human rights are human rights are human rights, and are universal. Being shitty to the humans you pay while paying lip service to some of the humans that pay you is an interesting and, from some angles, contradictory position to hold.
- gbear605 7y agoHuman rights are universal, but one involves literal concentration camps while the other is people who are voluntarily there, even if it is abusive. I think that Epic Games should change their policies, and so should the rest of the game development industry, but I prioritize disliking fascism over disliking poor working conditions.
- iamaelephant 7y agoCan you explain the relevance to the topic of discussion?
- Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
- loceng 7y agoTencent bought 40% of Epic Games at some point: what's different between Blizzard and Epic's relationship - is it, as the CEO said, he is the controlling shareholder? As many gamers are saying however, him stating this, because Tencent will profit from their ownership of Epic - they will boycott Epic's games as well.
- jsgo 7y agoI'd imagine the ones who are going to boycott Epic games have been doing so already over the launcher/store. I don't see this event adding more to the heap. Personally, I'm not one of these people, but I have refused to buy products for random reasons too so to each their own. If anything, I'm kind of shocked he's jumping out ahead of an event happening to Epic Games of a player protesting on behalf of Hong Kong and stating what they will do, with Tencent being part of their funding. Either this is to push the "they don't control us" narrative re:Tencent. I don't know how big Fortnite is in China (seems PUBG is the big one there?) and they relatively recently bought the developer behind Rocket League I believe which similarly, don't know how big of a presence they have in China. Kudos to him whatever the reasoning though. Being willing to draw the ire of a country that, population wise, eclipses your other larger markets because you disagree with their handling of a protest is gutsy on his part. Granted, they're basically printing money with Fortnite so I guess he doesn't have to care too much to keep the lights on, but still, he is not solely driven by capitalism as it would be easy to just stay quiet.
- MrGilbert 7y agoWell... we also don't know what HAS happened already, behind closed doors. Maybe there has already been an "order" from Tencent regarding this case. And maybe Tim already stood up, but couldn't say anything - this would have been the right moment, so maybe he just used it.
- icu 7y agoWell imho "Blizzard" is Blizzard in name only, really it is Activision now. Again, imho, "Blizzard" is only interested in squeezing every last bit of profit it can and will stop at nothing to do so. To be fair, "Blizzard" probably isn't breaking any rules, but it isn't exactly acting with total integrity. A great example is the way "Blizzard" structures its business affairs in the EU so as to avoid paying taxes in the countries it makes revenue in. Bear in mind I say this with despair as a former Blizzard fanboy. As for Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney, he isn't without controversy but the guy is a billionaire and I'm willing to bet that in his mind, he sees Epic Games as an extension of himself. He must feel strongly enough to take such a public stance at the risk of angering his Chinese shareholders and future business in China.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kangnkodos 7y agoWhy have the League of Legends announcers stopped saying the words "Hong Kong" in phrases such as the team "Honk Kong Attitude", and instead only say HKA? Does Tencent control the broadcast/streaming?
- kmfrk 7y agoTencent owns Riot Games who made LoL.
- developer2 7y agoTo be specific, Riot Games sold the full 100% to Tencent. Tencent owns partial shares in a lot of companies; when it comes to Riot Games / League of Legends, that percentage is the full 100.
- kangnkodos 7y agoThanks for correcting me. I see my mistake now. Tencent controls 40% of Epic. Tencent controls 100% of Riot/League of Legends. Epic has no control over Riot/League of Legends.
- goatinaboat 7y agoTencent controls 100% of Riot/League of Legends As Matt Levine observes, an American company can simply ignore its foreign owner if necessary https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-02-01/citgo-isn-t-sure-who-its-boss-is https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-02-01/citgo-...
- Barrin92 7y agothat's a very short-term/literal view of the situation. Obviously any American company at the end of the day can physically do what it wants if it resides in the US, but if you want to have long term access to the Chinese market or capital it becomes significantly more of a strategic issue. Just look at the university conflicts in Australia.
- sdinsn 7y agoEpic is owned ~45% by Tencent. So I doubt this is going to be true.
- larkeith 7y agoThere are several tweets specifically on this in the twitter thread: Tim Sweeney @TimSweeneyEpic 4h Replying to @CherrishChoerry @calibrono and 3 others > Epic is a US company and I’m the controlling shareholder. Tencent is an approximately 40% shareholder, and there are many other shareholders including employees and investors. Cherrish Choerry @CherrishChoerry 4h Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic @calibrono and 3 others > 40% is a big cut though. They’re already apparently pulling out of the NBA League. Can you honestly say if a similar event happened you wouldn’t have to, sever ties with said influential figure, i.e the NBA coach/Hearthstone Champ Tim Sweeney @TimSweeneyEpic Replying to @CherrishChoerry @calibrono and 3 others > Yes, absolutely. That will never happen on my watch as the founder, CEO, and controlling shareholder. 7:55 AM - 9 Oct 2019
- sdinsn 7y agoOf course the CEO would deny that it's a problem. He isn't necessarily being honest.
- jplayer01 7y agoSo we’re just blindly believing whatever CEOs say now? There are so many incentives for them to say whatever the public wants to hear that it doesn’t make sense to take any of it at face value.
- robbrit 7y agoHe also now has a strong incentive to stick to what he said. Complying with China after publicly saying he wouldn't would be an even bigger PR disaster than what Blizzard is facing right now.
- magma17 7y agoexcusatio non petita accusatio manifesta.
- franknine 7y agoMay I have "Taiwan" option instead of "Chinese Taipei" for signing up an Epic account? Even Blizzard is not doing this.
- teslaberry 7y agoi hope the ceo can be sued, when fornite players are banned for opposing the u.s. government as opposed to china. this whole thing is political bullshit. dumbass idiot consumers (citizen is a dirty word didn't you know?) in the west being used as pawns. so long as they have no brains and don't look inwards, they won't be punished.
- not_a_cop75 7y ago"There are some that call me Tim." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTbrIo1p-So https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTbrIo1p-So
- AFascistWorld 7y agoHis company has virtually zero market share in China too.
- trobertson 7y agoHis company is China's inroad to the Western games distribution industry. China is totally cool with Epic allowing anti-China statements as long as it brings the users into China arms.
- jplayer01 7y agoTalk is cheap when you’re not in a position where you have to prove you mean it. Just look at any number of comments here who seem to be praising Sweeney. I wish I was a CEO, seems to be an easy job when all you have to do is say the right words and people blindly eat it all up and believe you.
- jeegsy 7y agoAh, it would seem that Epic has a nose for marketing opportunities especially today when "values" / "we are good folk" marketing is all the rage