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Would you be OK with your use of work bathrooms being made public? You can have an expectation of privacy while using other people's stuff.

by avar 7y ago

CydeWeys 7y ago
This is a bad analogy.
- keltor 7y ago
  Actually, it's a rather perfect analogy. People have some expectations of privacy and it's not normally considered acceptable to violate this. Sometimes this stuff is untried in court or falls into a definite legal grey area and usually the policy is to err on the side of caution and simply assume that if something is commonly expected to be private, then it's private and should be kept so. If we were investigating a user for XYZ and came across a file named "Personal Diary 2019.txt" or whatever, I can assure you that HR would not want us to open that file. Possibly if HR found out they'd declare the investigation tainted and want to stop it right there.
  - dkonofalski 7y ago
    If HR found a file called "Personal Diary 2019.txt" on the computer that is owned by the company they work for, there is no expectation of privacy. This is not the user's personal computer that they hacked into or gained unauthorized access to. Courts have ruled on multiple occasions that you do not have an expectation of privacy on your employer's hardware.
  - kelnos 7y ago
    It's an absolutely terrible analogy. First off, putting cameras in restrooms is illegal in most places. Regardless of that, it boils down to a legitimate company need. Ensuring that users aren't using passwords definitely passes that test. Ensuring that employees aren't sexually harassing other employees also definitely passes that test. Yes, it's unusual that a password tipped people off to bad behavior, but if you see possible evidence of bad behavior, even if it comes from a strange source, you are ethically obligated to look into it. And for a company, not doing so could create legal liability. Now, bathrooms? Well, for starters, you said "use of work bathrooms being made public". There was nothing "public" about this password case. The password was shared, privately, with HR and the guy's manager. The closest possible bathroom analogy I can think of might be someone reporting to HR that they see someone going into the bathroom multiple times a day, coming out with white powder residue under their nose, and subsequently acting very strangely, like they're on drugs. Which... seems like an entirely appropriate thing to notice and report.
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      To expand on the company need angle, logging in to your work account on your work computer hardware is absolutely a part of your job. Work has a vested interest in securing their computer systems while allowing authorized employees only to use them to conduct their work. On the other hand, going to the bathroom is completely ancillary to your job. It's not a work-related duty; it's just something that humans have to do because we're made out of meat.
  - laughinghan 7y ago
    I'm trying to understand what you're saying, but it just seems completely divorced from reality. Do you believe it has not been tested in the courts that cameras in bathrooms are illegal? Do you believe that if you polled office workers about whether bathrooms are private and whether they expect cameras to be in there, you would get any result other than widespread belief that bathrooms are private and there cannot be cameras in there? Do you believe it has not been tested in the courts that anything you write on a work computer is the property of the employer? Do you believe that if you polled office workers about whether they think what they do with their work computer is audited or private to them, you would get any result other than widespread understanding that employers own everything you do on your work computer?
travisjungroth 7y ago
If I was writing down offensive stuff about a coworker in the bathroom, that seems fair.
- dmix 7y ago
  Being offensive is the privacy line? I prefer the don't trust anything on your work machines or work equipment to be private, especially if it's synced with a server or directly from a server. If it was his individual laptop or something it might be slightly different but the etc directory was remotely accessible and his password clearly matters to the company's security. Like a rented apartment a heads up beforehand might be a good courtesy not a requirement though.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Most of what I do in the restroom is offensive. All the rest is more like an atrocity. I'd still prefer not to be filmed.
MisterTea 7y ago
This isn't hard. Don't want your personal info on a work computer? Then don't put it there. Work computers, networks and other resources are not yours. They belong to your employer.
anon73044 7y ago
Are you comparing a work computer to a restroom used by dozens, if not hundreds of people everyday? Do the sales guys and C-level execs get an expectation of privacy to snort coke in the bathroom? "Reasonable explanation of privacy" doesn't necessarily apply to "at will" employment. Every company, large or small has some form of acceptable usage policy for their systems. Anything you type in can and will be used against you if necessary.

Would you be OK with your use of work bathrooms being made public? You can have an expectation of privacy while using other people's stuff.

by avar 7y ago

Would you be OK with your use of work bathrooms being made public? You can have an expectation of privacy while using other people's stuff.

CydeWeys 7y ago

This is a bad analogy.

keltor 7y ago
Actually, it's a rather perfect analogy. People have some expectations of privacy and it's not normally considered acceptable to violate this. Sometimes this stuff is untried in court or falls into a definite legal grey area and usually the policy is to err on the side of caution and simply assume that if something is commonly expected to be private, then it's private and should be kept so. If we were investigating a user for XYZ and came across a file named "Personal Diary 2019.txt" or whatever, I can assure you that HR would not want us to open that file. Possibly if HR found out they'd declare the investigation tainted and want to stop it right there.
- dkonofalski 7y ago
  If HR found a file called "Personal Diary 2019.txt" on the computer that is owned by the company they work for, there is no expectation of privacy. This is not the user's personal computer that they hacked into or gained unauthorized access to. Courts have ruled on multiple occasions that you do not have an expectation of privacy on your employer's hardware.
- kelnos 7y ago
  It's an absolutely terrible analogy. First off, putting cameras in restrooms is illegal in most places. Regardless of that, it boils down to a legitimate company need. Ensuring that users aren't using passwords definitely passes that test. Ensuring that employees aren't sexually harassing other employees also definitely passes that test. Yes, it's unusual that a password tipped people off to bad behavior, but if you see possible evidence of bad behavior, even if it comes from a strange source, you are ethically obligated to look into it. And for a company, not doing so could create legal liability. Now, bathrooms? Well, for starters, you said "use of work bathrooms being made public". There was nothing "public" about this password case. The password was shared, privately, with HR and the guy's manager. The closest possible bathroom analogy I can think of might be someone reporting to HR that they see someone going into the bathroom multiple times a day, coming out with white powder residue under their nose, and subsequently acting very strangely, like they're on drugs. Which... seems like an entirely appropriate thing to notice and report.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    To expand on the company need angle, logging in to your work account on your work computer hardware is absolutely a part of your job. Work has a vested interest in securing their computer systems while allowing authorized employees only to use them to conduct their work. On the other hand, going to the bathroom is completely ancillary to your job. It's not a work-related duty; it's just something that humans have to do because we're made out of meat.
- laughinghan 7y ago
  I'm trying to understand what you're saying, but it just seems completely divorced from reality. Do you believe it has not been tested in the courts that cameras in bathrooms are illegal? Do you believe that if you polled office workers about whether bathrooms are private and whether they expect cameras to be in there, you would get any result other than widespread belief that bathrooms are private and there cannot be cameras in there? Do you believe it has not been tested in the courts that anything you write on a work computer is the property of the employer? Do you believe that if you polled office workers about whether they think what they do with their work computer is audited or private to them, you would get any result other than widespread understanding that employers own everything you do on your work computer?

travisjungroth 7y ago

If I was writing down offensive stuff about a coworker in the bathroom, that seems fair.

dmix 7y ago
Being offensive is the privacy line? I prefer the don't trust anything on your work machines or work equipment to be private, especially if it's synced with a server or directly from a server. If it was his individual laptop or something it might be slightly different but the etc directory was remotely accessible and his password clearly matters to the company's security. Like a rented apartment a heads up beforehand might be a good courtesy not a requirement though.
jessaustin 7y ago
Most of what I do in the restroom is offensive. All the rest is more like an atrocity. I'd still prefer not to be filmed.

MisterTea 7y ago

This isn't hard. Don't want your personal info on a work computer? Then don't put it there. Work computers, networks and other resources are not yours. They belong to your employer.

anon73044 7y ago

Are you comparing a work computer to a restroom used by dozens, if not hundreds of people everyday? Do the sales guys and C-level execs get an expectation of privacy to snort coke in the bathroom? "Reasonable explanation of privacy" doesn't necessarily apply to "at will" employment. Every company, large or small has some form of acceptable usage policy for their systems. Anything you type in can and will be used against you if necessary.