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>Which is so open ended that it's impossible to not break it if you have an opinion and are speaking to a global audience. You are a professional player in a t

by mwyah 7y ago

>Which is so open ended that it's impossible to not break it if you have an opinion and are speaking to a global audience. You are a professional player in a tournament, you should not use an official stream to spew political opinions... or opinions of any other kind.

stronglikedan 7y ago
Yup. Basically misappropriation of company resources, and any company would (and should) fire someone for that.
reroute1 7y ago
No opinions of any kind... sounds like a super interesting stream!
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Well, being a professional e-athlete means being an entertainer first and foremost. Everything you do and say is supposed to maximize the amount of money made for you, people who manage you, and the sport. Just like in physical sports. In this case, the player violated this on their own accord. As right as this was, no surprise it made the business people unhappy. 'stronglikedan is correct in saying it's pretty much like misappropriation of company resources. (In other news: entertainment is fake to the core. It's not about the game, it's about making money.) But I also think it's 100% fair for the audience to be angry about this. It's a free market, and if people don't express their morality and/or politics through ways that impact the profits of the offenders, the market will not take those morals and politics into account. Bad press is a market signal too.
  - reroute1 7y ago
    I'm not disagreeing that it goes against company mission/guidelines, but if part of your product is player streams and you give them a caveat of not having the ability to freely express opinions that is going to be an incredibly boring stream.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      It will be boring only if you're seeking some philosophical or moral insight in it. Entertainment is the opposite of boring by definition. The entire industry is built around optimizing the value of (average interest * audience size), which means that successful streams aren't going to be boring no matter how little freedom the streamer has to voice their political opinions. I mean, take your favorite sports/e-sports stream. How much political opinions does the streamer voice? Would you really recognize, from just watching the stream, if they were censored by the Chinese?
      - reroute1 7y ago
        I disagree. Lots of the streams I enjoy are largely based on the personality of the streamer and their interaction with viewers. If you start removing their freedoms of what they can and can't say that would heavily impact their interactions and limit their opinions/speech. Yes it's true that most of the dialogue isn't heavily political, but politics is a wide sweeping topic. What if they are bringing up legitimate problems with the game, or the parent game company? Totally reasonable and interesting opinions that actually happen all the time on streams would be in danger of getting banned. Not to mention discussion of everyday life outside of the game which is also commonplace on many streams. Just watching gameplay with no opinions and interaction is a watered down boring stream in my opinion. Maybe there are times when that is what someone wants when specifically looking for gameplay tips and how pros play, but that is only a subset of game streaming even by professional gamers. If the streamer is a sponsored pro, sure they have to worry about those sponsors but what kind of advice is it to tell them they should have no opinions? It feels short-sighted of the sponsors because they are limiting the potential of the stream and if they already sponsor someone, why wouldn't they want their opinions heard?
EpicEng 7y ago
>You are a professional player in a tournament, you should not use an official stream to spew political opinions https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/news/23013827/ https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/news/23013827/ Blizzard was fine introducing politics into their competitions when it suited them to do so. In that case it made them look progressive and they sold a lot of pins and t-shirts. In this case, they could lose a whole bunch of money. Their stance on this sort of thing isn't consistent unless you view it from the angle of "what will make Blizzard money?" They also went completely nuclear on this guy by taking his winnings and banning him for a year, not to mention firing the two commentators. I said essentially the same thing in another thread yesterday, but the issue at hand here isn't whether or not Blizzard has the right to enforce some vague rule; it's whether or not they should have and what were their motivations. We need to be very careful about allowing China to dictate what we can see and hear in our media. These companies are quite literally helping an authoritarian government to further oppress its people, and their only motivation is money. It's insane to me that so many people are arguing in Blizzard's favor because apparently the only thing that matters is the bottom line, integrity be damned.
- mwyah 7y ago
  >Blizzard was fine introducing politics into their competitions when it suited them to do so. In that case it made them look progressive and they sold a lot of pins and t-shirts. In this case, they could lose a whole bunch of money. I agree with you. In fact, I didn't buy Overwatch because of the way they were shoving gay stuff into it.
  - BigJ1211 7y ago
    > I agree with you. In fact, I didn't buy Overwatch because of the way they were shoving gay stuff into it. I fail to see how this could be your takeaway from his statement. His point is that they will pander to whatever cause makes them the most amount of money. LGBTQ+ content in a game should not be the reason you don't want a game. There are games that handle it very poorly and are just trying to virtue-signal. They make the point of the game that the character is gay (generally a lesbian as that hits more checkboxes) and as a result these games suffer quality wise. Being non-binary isn't a good story, your media should have a good story. The character having "being gay" as one of their character traits is fine. "Being gay" isn't (far from it) the only thing that defines a person (or character)
Majromax 7y ago
Colin Kaepernick called (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Kaepernick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Kaepernick) from the ship that already sailed, and he'd like to remind us all about the 1968 Black Power Salute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salu...) while offering a discount on tickets to the Summit Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_Series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_Series). Politics and sports have been intertwined for as long as there have been organized sports (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Olympic_Games#Politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Olympic_Games#Politics). If e-Sports are in fact Sports, and if Blizzard intends to exercise control over political speech of ostensibly independent players, then ultimately Blizzard has accepted responsibility for its corporate political speech via the sport, which evidently includes a pro-mainland stance on Hong Kong.
- joelx 7y ago
  We should all boycott Blizzard and not buy their games regardless of how good they are. We should try and convince everyone we possibly can to join us. Freedom and preventing unjust state beatings and murder is more important than having some fun.
  - SimbaOnSteroids 7y ago
    Blizzard and Activision, since they share a stock price.
  - sneak 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnetd#Blizzard_takedown_demand_and_lawsuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnetd#Blizzard_takedown_demand... We've known Blizzard to be fuckers since at least 2002. The only way I can play their games now is by getting comped copies via pro player friends; I refuse to ever give them a dime.
- benologist 7y ago
  Cathy Freeman defied the Olympic rules and carried the Aboriginal flag at the 2000 Olympics, and went on to carry the Olympic flag at the 2002 Winter Olympics opening ceremonies! Sports are one of the best venues for protest because they give you an audience that can be global. https://spitztengle.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/cathy-freeman_aboriginee-flag.jpg https://spitztengle.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/cathy-freema... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_Freeman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_Freeman
wlesieutre 7y ago
So if a player said in an interview "It's bad to murder people for being gay" they ought to be kicked out of the tournament and have their prize money retracted? That's how far we've fallen with appeasing oppressive governments in pursuit of their money?
traderjane 7y ago
Even the opinion not to speak about power and people is a political opinion.
X6S1x6Okd1st 7y ago
Why?
BigJ1211 7y ago
They could use the same rule to force you to open up your mouth, as refusing to comment on issues could also have a negative impact on Blizzard Activision. They could coherce your speech, say x about issue y. If you refuse then ...
navigatesol 7y ago
>You are a professional player in a tournament, you should not use an official stream to spew political opinions... or opinions of any other kind. You should use whatever platform you've earned to state whatever views you wish. If there are consequences, so be it.
eropple 7y ago
Would you have said the same about Muhammad Ali? Curt Schilling?

by mwyah 7y ago

stronglikedan 7y ago

Yup. Basically misappropriation of company resources, and any company would (and should) fire someone for that.

reroute1 7y ago

No opinions of any kind... sounds like a super interesting stream!

TeMPOraL 7y ago
Well, being a professional e-athlete means being an entertainer first and foremost. Everything you do and say is supposed to maximize the amount of money made for you, people who manage you, and the sport. Just like in physical sports. In this case, the player violated this on their own accord. As right as this was, no surprise it made the business people unhappy. 'stronglikedan is correct in saying it's pretty much like misappropriation of company resources. (In other news: entertainment is fake to the core. It's not about the game, it's about making money.) But I also think it's 100% fair for the audience to be angry about this. It's a free market, and if people don't express their morality and/or politics through ways that impact the profits of the offenders, the market will not take those morals and politics into account. Bad press is a market signal too.
- reroute1 7y ago
  I'm not disagreeing that it goes against company mission/guidelines, but if part of your product is player streams and you give them a caveat of not having the ability to freely express opinions that is going to be an incredibly boring stream.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    It will be boring only if you're seeking some philosophical or moral insight in it. Entertainment is the opposite of boring by definition. The entire industry is built around optimizing the value of (average interest * audience size), which means that successful streams aren't going to be boring no matter how little freedom the streamer has to voice their political opinions. I mean, take your favorite sports/e-sports stream. How much political opinions does the streamer voice? Would you really recognize, from just watching the stream, if they were censored by the Chinese?
    - reroute1 7y ago
      I disagree. Lots of the streams I enjoy are largely based on the personality of the streamer and their interaction with viewers. If you start removing their freedoms of what they can and can't say that would heavily impact their interactions and limit their opinions/speech. Yes it's true that most of the dialogue isn't heavily political, but politics is a wide sweeping topic. What if they are bringing up legitimate problems with the game, or the parent game company? Totally reasonable and interesting opinions that actually happen all the time on streams would be in danger of getting banned. Not to mention discussion of everyday life outside of the game which is also commonplace on many streams. Just watching gameplay with no opinions and interaction is a watered down boring stream in my opinion. Maybe there are times when that is what someone wants when specifically looking for gameplay tips and how pros play, but that is only a subset of game streaming even by professional gamers. If the streamer is a sponsored pro, sure they have to worry about those sponsors but what kind of advice is it to tell them they should have no opinions? It feels short-sighted of the sponsors because they are limiting the potential of the stream and if they already sponsor someone, why wouldn't they want their opinions heard?

EpicEng 7y ago

>You are a professional player in a tournament, you should not use an official stream to spew political opinions https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/news/23013827/ https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/news/23013827/ Blizzard was fine introducing politics into their competitions when it suited them to do so. In that case it made them look progressive and they sold a lot of pins and t-shirts. In this case, they could lose a whole bunch of money. Their stance on this sort of thing isn't consistent unless you view it from the angle of "what will make Blizzard money?" They also went completely nuclear on this guy by taking his winnings and banning him for a year, not to mention firing the two commentators. I said essentially the same thing in another thread yesterday, but the issue at hand here isn't whether or not Blizzard has the right to enforce some vague rule; it's whether or not they should have and what were their motivations. We need to be very careful about allowing China to dictate what we can see and hear in our media. These companies are quite literally helping an authoritarian government to further oppress its people, and their only motivation is money. It's insane to me that so many people are arguing in Blizzard's favor because apparently the only thing that matters is the bottom line, integrity be damned.

mwyah 7y ago
>Blizzard was fine introducing politics into their competitions when it suited them to do so. In that case it made them look progressive and they sold a lot of pins and t-shirts. In this case, they could lose a whole bunch of money. I agree with you. In fact, I didn't buy Overwatch because of the way they were shoving gay stuff into it.
- BigJ1211 7y ago
  > I agree with you. In fact, I didn't buy Overwatch because of the way they were shoving gay stuff into it. I fail to see how this could be your takeaway from his statement. His point is that they will pander to whatever cause makes them the most amount of money. LGBTQ+ content in a game should not be the reason you don't want a game. There are games that handle it very poorly and are just trying to virtue-signal. They make the point of the game that the character is gay (generally a lesbian as that hits more checkboxes) and as a result these games suffer quality wise. Being non-binary isn't a good story, your media should have a good story. The character having "being gay" as one of their character traits is fine. "Being gay" isn't (far from it) the only thing that defines a person (or character)

Majromax 7y ago

Colin Kaepernick called (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Kaepernick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Kaepernick) from the ship that already sailed, and he'd like to remind us all about the 1968 Black Power Salute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salu...) while offering a discount on tickets to the Summit Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_Series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_Series). Politics and sports have been intertwined for as long as there have been organized sports (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Olympic_Games#Politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Olympic_Games#Politics). If e-Sports are in fact Sports, and if Blizzard intends to exercise control over political speech of ostensibly independent players, then ultimately Blizzard has accepted responsibility for its corporate political speech via the sport, which evidently includes a pro-mainland stance on Hong Kong.

joelx 7y ago
We should all boycott Blizzard and not buy their games regardless of how good they are. We should try and convince everyone we possibly can to join us. Freedom and preventing unjust state beatings and murder is more important than having some fun.
- SimbaOnSteroids 7y ago
  Blizzard and Activision, since they share a stock price.
- sneak 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnetd#Blizzard_takedown_demand_and_lawsuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnetd#Blizzard_takedown_demand... We've known Blizzard to be fuckers since at least 2002. The only way I can play their games now is by getting comped copies via pro player friends; I refuse to ever give them a dime.
benologist 7y ago
Cathy Freeman defied the Olympic rules and carried the Aboriginal flag at the 2000 Olympics, and went on to carry the Olympic flag at the 2002 Winter Olympics opening ceremonies! Sports are one of the best venues for protest because they give you an audience that can be global. https://spitztengle.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/cathy-freeman_aboriginee-flag.jpg https://spitztengle.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/cathy-freema... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_Freeman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_Freeman

wlesieutre 7y ago

So if a player said in an interview "It's bad to murder people for being gay" they ought to be kicked out of the tournament and have their prize money retracted? That's how far we've fallen with appeasing oppressive governments in pursuit of their money?

traderjane 7y ago

Even the opinion not to speak about power and people is a political opinion.

X6S1x6Okd1st 7y ago

Why?

BigJ1211 7y ago

They could use the same rule to force you to open up your mouth, as refusing to comment on issues could also have a negative impact on Blizzard Activision. They could coherce your speech, say x about issue y. If you refuse then ...

navigatesol 7y ago

>You are a professional player in a tournament, you should not use an official stream to spew political opinions... or opinions of any other kind. You should use whatever platform you've earned to state whatever views you wish. If there are consequences, so be it.

eropple 7y ago

Would you have said the same about Muhammad Ali? Curt Schilling?