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I have grown up in a family that always had a dog. So naturaly when I was in at the point I could support a dog me and my girlfriend got a puppy. The first year

I have grown up in a family that always had a dog. So naturaly when I was in at the point I could support a dog me and my girlfriend got a puppy. The first years I spend a lot of time with my dog, training, walking and stuff. But then our first child was born, I got bussier with work. And now there is no time left to spend on the dog. Most of the long walks are replaced with a boring short walk to the back of the yard to do business. He gets tired half way along the shortest walk we can take that allows us to leave a busy street and let him roam free. So even the long walks are not always that enjoyable. Our dog often enough takes no for an answer and is lazy. But if that is cause or effect I don't know. Some weeks are better than others, and some weekends allow for time to take the car with the family and the dog to a forest. But often that requires planning and stress as well. So just like a baby won't save a mariage, a dog won't guaranteed bring you more happiness. And I didn't even mention yet that if you have bad luck with your dog and it gets injured or a hereditary disease. Then your dog even becomes a burden.

83457 7y ago
I can relate to everything you are saying. I have 2 kids now that came when my dog was about 4 years old. Things that (could) become an issue with dog ownership.... being waken up repeatedly during the night, not being able to take certain vacations without having to find accommodations or boarding the dog, development of long term issue like diabetes, complications like vomit/pee/poop in the house, no longer being able to board your dog many places if they are receiving insulin shots, and unfortunately... trauma from end of life care and decisions. A couple weeks ago we euthanized our dog who started having progressively worse seizures in less than a week time period. The most traumatic part of it was that she recovered partially on anti-convulsive medication. She already was getting older for her breed mix and had limited sight from cataracts and deafness so there were concerns about quality of life. I had to decide between spending increased time and money to keep her alive and potentially investigate the cause for some unknown amount of time, something that would be done for a human, or letting her go to avoid further pain/seizures for her and progressively more disruption to my family's life. I'm still not completely comfortable with the decision I made. The experience makes me not want another dog for which I would have to go through the end of life experience again.
- lukevp 7y ago
  Sorry to hear about your pup. My wife and I went through the same thing a few months ago. Our dog had cataracts and was mostly deaf, and she started having seizures too. We also made the decision to euthanize. It got to the point where she was having them every few hours. Unfortunately that's part of dog ownership, is knowing that they do not live forever and having to make that choice for them. It sounds like your dog was in a very loving family. That is the contract we make with them, that we will love them and they'll love us back. Putting her through even more pain just to prolong her life for a small amount of time would not have been the right decision for anyone. It's hard to let go and heal but I hope you don't blame yourself for making that choice. PM me if you want to discuss this some more. Virtual hugs.
- leonroy 7y ago
  > The experience makes me not want another dog for which I would have to go through the end of life experience again. Sorry to hear, that’s tough. Our dog was 2 when our first child was born 7 years ago. She is slowing down now a fair bit. Used to be a 3 mile walk twice a day wouldn’t even drain her energy but now a 1 mile walk and she’s ready to curl up and go to sleep. I dread the future decision we face about euthanasia but I am glad she is in our lives. Euthanasia will always be a complex topic - especially when and if it becomes more common amongst end of life care with humans. I think the conflict will never go, there is always more we can to to prolong life, or money to spend to improve quality of life. It’s something my wife and I discuss with regards to the dog. I believe it will be a very difficult and regretful decision no matter what. Perhaps that is as it should be.
kerkeslager 7y ago
That's right. This study shows that those who have a dog have lower cardiovascular risk. It doesn't show that getting a dog is an effective intervention for lowering cardiovascular risk. We need to be careful about conflating pre-existing factors (already owning a dog) to interventions (going out and buying a dog to try to fix something). That said, your post talks about stress as a cohesive entity, but there's some research that shows two kinds of stress: distress (negative) and eustress (positive). And there's some evidence linking a few stress factors in your post (having a child, having a dog) to better long-term outcomes.
- Bartweiss 7y ago
  > conflating pre-existing factors (already owning a dog) to interventions (going out and buying a dog to try to fix something). This is a really good point. We often talk about confusing causation with common causality. (I.e. "active people have lower cardio risk and also get dogs" vs. "dogs lower cardio risk"). That's a good thing to check for, and essential to lots of debates. (For example, early data on charter school performance proved hugely distorted by the fact that educationally-engaged parents are the ones who look into charter schools.) But we tend to forget the subsequent questions: even if an effect is causative in the wild, does that mean it works as intervention? And even if it is an intervention for some people, have the people it helps already found it? (As an extreme example, hypothyroidism is causative in fatigue and depression. Iodized salt is preventative, but not an intervention for severe deficiency - and doctors already check for treating every depressed person with iodine or thyroid hormones would be a terrible approach.) Dog ownership is probably both common-cause and causative for cardio health. People who walk/run often are more likely to get a dog since their habits accommodate that, but also a dog is likely to push people towards exercise they wouldn't have gotten. As an intervention, though, it's a lot harder to say. Getting a dog changed my exercise behavior for the better specifically in the marginal cases where I would have almost run/walked, then yielded to inertia or poor scheduling. For people who don't lie near that margin, it's much less obvious what effect a dog might have.
- sqrt17 7y ago
  So many times this - there are many factors that are correlated to being rich and healthy which are do not present a suitable intervention opportunity.

83457 7y ago

I can relate to everything you are saying. I have 2 kids now that came when my dog was about 4 years old. Things that (could) become an issue with dog ownership.... being waken up repeatedly during the night, not being able to take certain vacations without having to find accommodations or boarding the dog, development of long term issue like diabetes, complications like vomit/pee/poop in the house, no longer being able to board your dog many places if they are receiving insulin shots, and unfortunately... trauma from end of life care and decisions. A couple weeks ago we euthanized our dog who started having progressively worse seizures in less than a week time period. The most traumatic part of it was that she recovered partially on anti-convulsive medication. She already was getting older for her breed mix and had limited sight from cataracts and deafness so there were concerns about quality of life. I had to decide between spending increased time and money to keep her alive and potentially investigate the cause for some unknown amount of time, something that would be done for a human, or letting her go to avoid further pain/seizures for her and progressively more disruption to my family's life. I'm still not completely comfortable with the decision I made. The experience makes me not want another dog for which I would have to go through the end of life experience again.

lukevp 7y ago
Sorry to hear about your pup. My wife and I went through the same thing a few months ago. Our dog had cataracts and was mostly deaf, and she started having seizures too. We also made the decision to euthanize. It got to the point where she was having them every few hours. Unfortunately that's part of dog ownership, is knowing that they do not live forever and having to make that choice for them. It sounds like your dog was in a very loving family. That is the contract we make with them, that we will love them and they'll love us back. Putting her through even more pain just to prolong her life for a small amount of time would not have been the right decision for anyone. It's hard to let go and heal but I hope you don't blame yourself for making that choice. PM me if you want to discuss this some more. Virtual hugs.
leonroy 7y ago
> The experience makes me not want another dog for which I would have to go through the end of life experience again. Sorry to hear, that’s tough. Our dog was 2 when our first child was born 7 years ago. She is slowing down now a fair bit. Used to be a 3 mile walk twice a day wouldn’t even drain her energy but now a 1 mile walk and she’s ready to curl up and go to sleep. I dread the future decision we face about euthanasia but I am glad she is in our lives. Euthanasia will always be a complex topic - especially when and if it becomes more common amongst end of life care with humans. I think the conflict will never go, there is always more we can to to prolong life, or money to spend to improve quality of life. It’s something my wife and I discuss with regards to the dog. I believe it will be a very difficult and regretful decision no matter what. Perhaps that is as it should be.

kerkeslager 7y ago

That's right. This study shows that those who have a dog have lower cardiovascular risk. It doesn't show that getting a dog is an effective intervention for lowering cardiovascular risk. We need to be careful about conflating pre-existing factors (already owning a dog) to interventions (going out and buying a dog to try to fix something). That said, your post talks about stress as a cohesive entity, but there's some research that shows two kinds of stress: distress (negative) and eustress (positive). And there's some evidence linking a few stress factors in your post (having a child, having a dog) to better long-term outcomes.

Bartweiss 7y ago
> conflating pre-existing factors (already owning a dog) to interventions (going out and buying a dog to try to fix something). This is a really good point. We often talk about confusing causation with common causality. (I.e. "active people have lower cardio risk and also get dogs" vs. "dogs lower cardio risk"). That's a good thing to check for, and essential to lots of debates. (For example, early data on charter school performance proved hugely distorted by the fact that educationally-engaged parents are the ones who look into charter schools.) But we tend to forget the subsequent questions: even if an effect is causative in the wild, does that mean it works as intervention? And even if it is an intervention for some people, have the people it helps already found it? (As an extreme example, hypothyroidism is causative in fatigue and depression. Iodized salt is preventative, but not an intervention for severe deficiency - and doctors already check for treating every depressed person with iodine or thyroid hormones would be a terrible approach.) Dog ownership is probably both common-cause and causative for cardio health. People who walk/run often are more likely to get a dog since their habits accommodate that, but also a dog is likely to push people towards exercise they wouldn't have gotten. As an intervention, though, it's a lot harder to say. Getting a dog changed my exercise behavior for the better specifically in the marginal cases where I would have almost run/walked, then yielded to inertia or poor scheduling. For people who don't lie near that margin, it's much less obvious what effect a dog might have.
sqrt17 7y ago
So many times this - there are many factors that are correlated to being rich and healthy which are do not present a suitable intervention opportunity.