4 ms·

If the threat of an invasion is not "forced", then what is?

yourbandsucks 7y ago
They don't call themselves part of China under threat. Their official position is that they're the rightful government of all of China. Abandoning 'Taiwan is part of China' would mean abandoning that claim. It looks quaint now, yes, but that's the official position. And it wasn't quaint when they were holding China's security council seat. The fact that both countries have reasons to say 'Taiwan is part of China' while each claiming to be the rightful government of China is the most basic fact of the relationship. It's embedded in the names of the countries, even. ROC and PRC. I'd submit that anyone with strong feelings on the matter should really already know this.
- gurkendoktor 7y ago
  Yes, that was the situation under authoritarian one-party rule, and there are no doubt still a few people in the ROC who dream of retaking the mainland under the KMT banner. Since then, China has added an explicit military threat under the Anti-Secession Law[1], and the ROC government has evolved into a two-party democracy. The official position has not changed, but the context has. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Secession_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Secession_Law
  - yourbandsucks 7y ago
    But we agree that that's the background and Taiwan hasn't reached consensus to change the official policy, right? OP is getting dogpiled for pointing out the grade school history overview of the topic. As for whether the threat of invasion is the deciding factor on the official ROC policy.. I think it's better explained by the fact that everything is going fine with two Chinas. They trade a ton, everyone's happy. Why mess with that just because the diplomatic positions don't make logical sense?
    - learc83 7y ago
      >But we agree that that's the background and Taiwan hasn't reached consensus to change the official policy, right? What part of China has threatened to invade them over changing their policy makes that policy a coerced statement and not an accurate representation of their intent do you not understand?
      - yourbandsucks 7y ago
        The part where anyone thinks it's a credible threat? I honestly thought that went without saying. You really think China's 5 seconds away from a bloody invasion? China is Taiwan's largest trading partner. Everyone's getting rich, in both countries. Taiwan is and will remain independent, everyone knows this, China doesn't care.
        SolaceQuantum 7y ago
        "China is Taiwan's largest trading partner." This seems like even more coercion opportunity on the part of China onto Taiwan, tbh. I doubt Taiwan has similar leverage over China to asswert its independence.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        learc83 7y ago
        >The part where anyone thinks it's a credible threat? 50% of people in Taiwan believe that China will invade if they declare independence. So yes half of the country thinks it's a credible threat. [1, 2] And only 6% think their situation has improved over this time last year. So "everyone's getting richer" certain isn't the perception in Taiwan. 1. Survey http://www.taiwansecurity.org/app/news.php?Sn=15761 http://www.taiwansecurity.org/app/news.php?Sn=15761 2. Summary https://nationalinterest.org/feature/what-latest-opinion-polls-say-about-taiwan-46187 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/what-latest-opinion-pol...
- scatters 7y ago
  The one-China policy was set at the time the KMT had one-party rule over the ROC. The DPP have no interest in pursuing the claim to the mainland.

They don't call themselves part of China under threat. Their official position is that they're the rightful government of all of China. Abandoning 'Taiwan is part of China' would mean abandoning that claim. It looks quaint now, yes, but that's the official position. And it wasn't quaint when they were holding China's security council seat. The fact that both countries have reasons to say 'Taiwan is part of China' while each claiming to be the rightful government of China is the most basic fact of the relationship. It's embedded in the names of the countries, even. ROC and PRC. I'd submit that anyone with strong feelings on the matter should really already know this.

gurkendoktor 7y ago
Yes, that was the situation under authoritarian one-party rule, and there are no doubt still a few people in the ROC who dream of retaking the mainland under the KMT banner. Since then, China has added an explicit military threat under the Anti-Secession Law[1], and the ROC government has evolved into a two-party democracy. The official position has not changed, but the context has. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Secession_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Secession_Law
- yourbandsucks 7y ago
  But we agree that that's the background and Taiwan hasn't reached consensus to change the official policy, right? OP is getting dogpiled for pointing out the grade school history overview of the topic. As for whether the threat of invasion is the deciding factor on the official ROC policy.. I think it's better explained by the fact that everything is going fine with two Chinas. They trade a ton, everyone's happy. Why mess with that just because the diplomatic positions don't make logical sense?
  - learc83 7y ago
    >But we agree that that's the background and Taiwan hasn't reached consensus to change the official policy, right? What part of China has threatened to invade them over changing their policy makes that policy a coerced statement and not an accurate representation of their intent do you not understand?
    - yourbandsucks 7y ago
      The part where anyone thinks it's a credible threat? I honestly thought that went without saying. You really think China's 5 seconds away from a bloody invasion? China is Taiwan's largest trading partner. Everyone's getting rich, in both countries. Taiwan is and will remain independent, everyone knows this, China doesn't care.
      - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
        "China is Taiwan's largest trading partner." This seems like even more coercion opportunity on the part of China onto Taiwan, tbh. I doubt Taiwan has similar leverage over China to asswert its independence.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - learc83 7y ago
        >The part where anyone thinks it's a credible threat? 50% of people in Taiwan believe that China will invade if they declare independence. So yes half of the country thinks it's a credible threat. [1, 2] And only 6% think their situation has improved over this time last year. So "everyone's getting richer" certain isn't the perception in Taiwan. 1. Survey http://www.taiwansecurity.org/app/news.php?Sn=15761 http://www.taiwansecurity.org/app/news.php?Sn=15761 2. Summary https://nationalinterest.org/feature/what-latest-opinion-polls-say-about-taiwan-46187 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/what-latest-opinion-pol...
scatters 7y ago
The one-China policy was set at the time the KMT had one-party rule over the ROC. The DPP have no interest in pursuing the claim to the mainland.