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I wonder if there are any costs to use the waterways. Even if the boats are slower than trains, couldn't it be the case that with all the layovers a train take

I wonder if there are any costs to use the waterways. Even if the boats are slower than trains, couldn't it be the case that with all the layovers a train takes as much or more time than a boat? It would be cool to have a boat service similar to Flixbus.

Doctor_Fegg 7y ago
Generally the navigation authority will levy a toll (based on tonnage or vessel size), or annual licence charge.
C1sc0cat 7y ago
It's a lot slower than trains. Having done a few Barge Holidays in the UK on a 72 foot narrow boat the slow speed is relaxing, though doing the Tardebigge Flight (30 locks) is hard work. Also being able to park the barge in front of the RSC and get tickets to see Kenneth Branagh was a highlight of one holiday
seszett 7y ago
Passing through a lock usually needs a fee (by the ship for passenger ships, by the ton for transport ships). But other than that, ships (with speeds of up to 100 km/h for fast hydrofoils but rarely for the whole trip) are always going to be slower than trains (usually much faster than 100 km/h). As an example, Vienna-Budapest used to be served by hydrofoil for a 6-hour trip, which takes 2 and a half hours by train. Calais-Dover is also a good example of how train is faster than ship (30 minutes vs 1h30), even in this instance of a very straight route for the ships. I like taking a boat when I have the option, but it's rarely actually a more practical option than the train. It can be better than a bus though.
- Mediterraneo10 7y ago
  > Calais-Dover is also a good example of how train is faster than ship (30 minutes vs 1h30), even in this instance of a very straight route for the ships. Do Calais-Dover ferries sell things on board? I imagine that the ferries in the Baltic Sea have no incentive to cut journey times, because so much of their profits come from getting people to eat, drink, and buy booze on board. Passengers need time to wander through the onboard shops and restaurants.
  - benj111 7y ago
    Yes they've got restaurants and shops and stuff. And soon, possibly the return of duty free.
- tom_mellior 7y ago
  > As an example, Vienna-Budapest used to be served by hydrofoil for a 6-hour trip, which takes 2 and a half hours by train. That sounds cool, but yes, not competitive unless you are looking for the enjoyment of being on a boat. More practically, Vienna-Bratislava is 59 or 66 minutes by train, 75 minutes by boat. Depending on your exact departure and destination points, that might actually save a few minutes.
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    Much of that hydrofoil 6 hours is probably spent at the 5 locks in the Danube along that stretch. And not even in the locks, but waiting your turn for the lock. So, unless you are looking for a tour of the steel-and-concrete locks of the Danube, the hydrofoil trip may not be for you.
superice 7y ago
Yeah, there is: speed. I work on software for inland cargo shipping, and the major factor there is speed and inflexibility of destinations. Trains, at least for cargo, are easily faster by a factor of two, if not faster. Going from the port of Rotterdam to Groningen (north of NL) takes about 24 hours by barge, but will take only around 8 hours by cargo train. By passenger train similar distances will take around 4 to 5 hours. Usually this is not too big of an issue when transporting cheap bulk goods, but especially food and other perishables (flowers!) are difficult when it comes to transportation over water. It's quite curious how the Europe is the only place with real inland shipping networks over water, other regions do not even come close in terms of amount of cargo transported, even though the natural resources are often there. The rest of the world pretty much relies on trains and trucks to transport cargo. There is quite some room for disruption here, but it's a hard an capital intensive market to break into. EDIT: To come back to your point about people, they often value time quite highly. Not very many people take a ship to travel the world anymore, even though there is a lot of the earth reachable by the sea. Natural resources is only one part of the equation, and usually the trade-off is between time and money.
- dcustodio 7y ago
  Indeed. You couldn't offer the same level of services that a cruise ship does because of height restrictions and it's too slow for fast-paced youngsters. Price-wise it's hard to compete with interrail so I guess it would be a very niche thing. Which leads me to wonder if there is anyone hitchhiking barges.
- pintxo 7y ago
  Actually most other continents have far less rivers which lend themselves to easy shipping. Also development in Europe was ahead of the curve in the last couple hundred years (and before we did not have the technology for locks and easy travel upriver). Now that everyone has catched up (or is in the process) there are fare quicker/easier/cheaper/flexible options like trains, trucks, planes available. So the pressure to build good waterways is way less.

Doctor_Fegg 7y ago

Generally the navigation authority will levy a toll (based on tonnage or vessel size), or annual licence charge.

C1sc0cat 7y ago

It's a lot slower than trains. Having done a few Barge Holidays in the UK on a 72 foot narrow boat the slow speed is relaxing, though doing the Tardebigge Flight (30 locks) is hard work. Also being able to park the barge in front of the RSC and get tickets to see Kenneth Branagh was a highlight of one holiday

seszett 7y ago

Passing through a lock usually needs a fee (by the ship for passenger ships, by the ton for transport ships). But other than that, ships (with speeds of up to 100 km/h for fast hydrofoils but rarely for the whole trip) are always going to be slower than trains (usually much faster than 100 km/h). As an example, Vienna-Budapest used to be served by hydrofoil for a 6-hour trip, which takes 2 and a half hours by train. Calais-Dover is also a good example of how train is faster than ship (30 minutes vs 1h30), even in this instance of a very straight route for the ships. I like taking a boat when I have the option, but it's rarely actually a more practical option than the train. It can be better than a bus though.

Mediterraneo10 7y ago
> Calais-Dover is also a good example of how train is faster than ship (30 minutes vs 1h30), even in this instance of a very straight route for the ships. Do Calais-Dover ferries sell things on board? I imagine that the ferries in the Baltic Sea have no incentive to cut journey times, because so much of their profits come from getting people to eat, drink, and buy booze on board. Passengers need time to wander through the onboard shops and restaurants.
- benj111 7y ago
  Yes they've got restaurants and shops and stuff. And soon, possibly the return of duty free.
tom_mellior 7y ago
> As an example, Vienna-Budapest used to be served by hydrofoil for a 6-hour trip, which takes 2 and a half hours by train. That sounds cool, but yes, not competitive unless you are looking for the enjoyment of being on a boat. More practically, Vienna-Bratislava is 59 or 66 minutes by train, 75 minutes by boat. Depending on your exact departure and destination points, that might actually save a few minutes.
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  Much of that hydrofoil 6 hours is probably spent at the 5 locks in the Danube along that stretch. And not even in the locks, but waiting your turn for the lock. So, unless you are looking for a tour of the steel-and-concrete locks of the Danube, the hydrofoil trip may not be for you.

superice 7y ago

Yeah, there is: speed. I work on software for inland cargo shipping, and the major factor there is speed and inflexibility of destinations. Trains, at least for cargo, are easily faster by a factor of two, if not faster. Going from the port of Rotterdam to Groningen (north of NL) takes about 24 hours by barge, but will take only around 8 hours by cargo train. By passenger train similar distances will take around 4 to 5 hours. Usually this is not too big of an issue when transporting cheap bulk goods, but especially food and other perishables (flowers!) are difficult when it comes to transportation over water. It's quite curious how the Europe is the only place with real inland shipping networks over water, other regions do not even come close in terms of amount of cargo transported, even though the natural resources are often there. The rest of the world pretty much relies on trains and trucks to transport cargo. There is quite some room for disruption here, but it's a hard an capital intensive market to break into. EDIT: To come back to your point about people, they often value time quite highly. Not very many people take a ship to travel the world anymore, even though there is a lot of the earth reachable by the sea. Natural resources is only one part of the equation, and usually the trade-off is between time and money.

dcustodio 7y ago
Indeed. You couldn't offer the same level of services that a cruise ship does because of height restrictions and it's too slow for fast-paced youngsters. Price-wise it's hard to compete with interrail so I guess it would be a very niche thing. Which leads me to wonder if there is anyone hitchhiking barges.
pintxo 7y ago
Actually most other continents have far less rivers which lend themselves to easy shipping. Also development in Europe was ahead of the curve in the last couple hundred years (and before we did not have the technology for locks and easy travel upriver). Now that everyone has catched up (or is in the process) there are fare quicker/easier/cheaper/flexible options like trains, trucks, planes available. So the pressure to build good waterways is way less.