8 ms·

The idol culture is extremely unhealthy. This is objectification turned to 11. They get a pass in the US because it seems so distant and Japan is "odd and cool"

by Iv 7y ago

The idol culture is extremely unhealthy. This is objectification turned to 11. They get a pass in the US because it seems so distant and Japan is "odd and cool" but it is actually really creepy.

claudiawerner 7y ago
At what point does one differentiate between obsession with idols and obsession with pop stars in other countries? In my experience, J-idols appear to put a lot of work into their personalities as part of the group and their "talent" which goes beyond the fetishization of beauty we usually associate with objectification. In other words, do we know that Japanese fans view idols as people tending to objects?
- PaulHoule 7y ago
  How is it different from Katy Perry or Taylor Swift? President Reagan was shot by a lunatic obsessed with actress Jodie Foster. Sometimes I think the Japanese are attracted to the idea of their exceptionalism.
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    > How is it different from Katy Perry or Taylor Swift? For many teen musicians and actresses, they are generally marketed towards fellow teens. The fact that adults focus on them is incidental (IMHO). That is not necessarily the same with certain Japanese niches: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_idol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_idol
- nothis 7y ago
  I don't even think that's the issue. I saw a documentary on Japan and they visited one of these idol "talent agencies". It's an incredibly creepy structure that's just not comparable to anything we have in the West.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    We have Harvey Weinstein and rh Disney industrial conplex, our own take on it.
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    > It's an incredibly creepy structure that's just not comparable to anything we have in the West. Especially when you add the world of "junior idols": * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_idol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_idol
  - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
    Child beauty pageants?
    - jandrese 7y ago
      That's not too far off. But instead of having overly controlling parents the idols have overly controlling corporations running their lives and 24/7 scrutiny from an extremely fickle and difficult to please fanbase.
coldtea 7y ago
>This is objectification turned to 11. Fans like those stars for their whole package (myth, personality, songs, artistic expression, style, etc) not e.g. just for their body (which is usually implied by objectification). It's also not much different than our pop idols, especially of yore (up until the 00s or so, before several other occupations, such as games, social media, web surfing, selfies, and tons of higher quality TV and movies) basically replaced pop music as the major obsession of western kids. There have been idols attacked (and even murdered) plenty of times in good ole US.
- dfxm12 7y ago
  Further reading seems to show they are different from pop idols of the west, both in fan culture[0] and how much control a talent agency has over the idols' personal life, including forcing idols to remain single so as to seem attainable by their fan base, which "may cause fans to be unable to distinguish between fantasy and real-life" [1]. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_idol#Fan_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_idol#Fan_culture 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_idol#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_idol#Criticism
  - autoexec 7y ago
    yeah, my main issue with it is it seems really exploitative. Get a bunch of kids and control every aspect of their lives in exchange for fame, subjecting them to all kinds of pressures and limiting their experiences...
  - coldtea 7y ago
    That was commonplace in the west for musicians and actors with a mass young fan base -- they often were forced by management to be single, or appear single, hide their relationships etc, not to disappoint the fans of the opposite sex. And of course actors/singers/etc who were gay/lesbian/bi/etc were forced to hide it for marketing reasons.
    - Iv 7y ago
      And we grew out of it. Japan did not. I wish we stopped giving Japan a pass for the things it does wrong. In terms of gender equality, minorities inclusiveness, gay rights, it lags far behind.

by Iv 7y ago

The idol culture is extremely unhealthy. This is objectification turned to 11. They get a pass in the US because it seems so distant and Japan is "odd and cool" but it is actually really creepy.

claudiawerner 7y ago

At what point does one differentiate between obsession with idols and obsession with pop stars in other countries? In my experience, J-idols appear to put a lot of work into their personalities as part of the group and their "talent" which goes beyond the fetishization of beauty we usually associate with objectification. In other words, do we know that Japanese fans view idols as people tending to objects?

PaulHoule 7y ago
How is it different from Katy Perry or Taylor Swift? President Reagan was shot by a lunatic obsessed with actress Jodie Foster. Sometimes I think the Japanese are attracted to the idea of their exceptionalism.
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > How is it different from Katy Perry or Taylor Swift? For many teen musicians and actresses, they are generally marketed towards fellow teens. The fact that adults focus on them is incidental (IMHO). That is not necessarily the same with certain Japanese niches: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_idol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_idol
nothis 7y ago
I don't even think that's the issue. I saw a documentary on Japan and they visited one of these idol "talent agencies". It's an incredibly creepy structure that's just not comparable to anything we have in the West.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  We have Harvey Weinstein and rh Disney industrial conplex, our own take on it.
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > It's an incredibly creepy structure that's just not comparable to anything we have in the West. Especially when you add the world of "junior idols": * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_idol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_idol
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  Child beauty pageants?
  - jandrese 7y ago
    That's not too far off. But instead of having overly controlling parents the idols have overly controlling corporations running their lives and 24/7 scrutiny from an extremely fickle and difficult to please fanbase.

coldtea 7y ago

>This is objectification turned to 11. Fans like those stars for their whole package (myth, personality, songs, artistic expression, style, etc) not e.g. just for their body (which is usually implied by objectification). It's also not much different than our pop idols, especially of yore (up until the 00s or so, before several other occupations, such as games, social media, web surfing, selfies, and tons of higher quality TV and movies) basically replaced pop music as the major obsession of western kids. There have been idols attacked (and even murdered) plenty of times in good ole US.

dfxm12 7y ago
Further reading seems to show they are different from pop idols of the west, both in fan culture[0] and how much control a talent agency has over the idols' personal life, including forcing idols to remain single so as to seem attainable by their fan base, which "may cause fans to be unable to distinguish between fantasy and real-life" [1]. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_idol#Fan_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_idol#Fan_culture 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_idol#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_idol#Criticism
- autoexec 7y ago
  yeah, my main issue with it is it seems really exploitative. Get a bunch of kids and control every aspect of their lives in exchange for fame, subjecting them to all kinds of pressures and limiting their experiences...
- coldtea 7y ago
  That was commonplace in the west for musicians and actors with a mass young fan base -- they often were forced by management to be single, or appear single, hide their relationships etc, not to disappoint the fans of the opposite sex. And of course actors/singers/etc who were gay/lesbian/bi/etc were forced to hide it for marketing reasons.
  - Iv 7y ago
    And we grew out of it. Japan did not. I wish we stopped giving Japan a pass for the things it does wrong. In terms of gender equality, minorities inclusiveness, gay rights, it lags far behind.