10 ms·

Dog Ownership and Survival

86 points by Kaibeezy 7y ago

Kaibeezy 7y ago
Pooling the data of 3 837 005 participants, dog ownership was associated with a 24% risk reduction for all-cause mortality as compared to nonownership (relative risk, 0.76; 95% CI, 0.67–0.86). In analyses of studies evaluating cardiovascular mortality, dog ownership conferred a 31% risk reduction for cardiovascular death (relative risk, 0.69; 95% CI, 0.67–0.71; I2, 5.1%). Dog ownership is associated with lower risk of death over the long term, which is possibly driven by a reduction in cardiovascular mortality. These results hold implications for future studies on lifestyle interventions.
- tomp 7y ago
  > dog ownership was associated with a 24% risk reduction for all-cause mortality What does that mean? Do dog owners have only 76% chance of dying, as opposed to 100% like the rest of us? I'm probably misinterpreting the statement...
  - jonasmst 7y ago
    Usually, in survival analysis, it means that at any point in time, the likelihood of an event (e.g. death, heart-disease, whatever they're measuring) occurring for dog-owners is 76% of that of non-dog owners. The risk varies from time to time, e.g. with age, and it's 76% of that risk. If the risk at a certain point is 10% for non-dog owners, it's 7.6% for dog owners. It's not like dog people are immortal.
    - asdkhadsj 7y ago
      > It's not like dog people are immortal. Depends on how many dogs you own. With enough dogs, you can invert your death likelihood stats. Though, I imagine that would mean as you age, you buy more dogs. Moving to the country seems required to house all of the dogs. Furthermore, the number of dogs would depend on how the math worked on the 76% of risk. Perhaps for true immortality we'd need an infinite number of dogs.
qmmmur 7y ago
People who have the means to own and care for a dog will probably have a better diet, less stress, more time to exercise and go to the doctor. I doubt dogs have a magical health aura.
- swebs 7y ago
  I see hobos with dogs.
  - tomalpha 7y ago
    This might have been your point, but it would indeed be interesting to know whether they have better or worse health outcomes than those without dogs.
    - kolp 7y ago
      One of the purposes of the dog is to discourage arrest for petty offences. The police officer has to take care of the dog if the crusty is arrested, so police are less inclined to arrest if the person can be moved on with a warning.
      - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
        >One of the purposes of the dog is to discourage arrest for petty offences Also works great for letting you trespass anywhere you could conceivably want to walk a dog that isn't obviously posted.
- 8fingerlouie 7y ago
  Dogs require frequent walks if you don't plan on cleaning your floors/carpets daily. Could it just not be that people who own and _care_ for a dog get exercise daily, as opposed to just sitting in a couch binging netflix all day ? Recent studies have proved that walking is a great source of exercise, and depending on dog size you get 2-10km walks per day (1-6 freedom units)
  - 7y ago
INTPenis 7y ago
In my periods of sadness I wouldn't have left the house if it weren't for my dog. And in all other times she's the reason I take the bicycle to the beach or the woods. Even after 2 years I still melt seeing her joy when running around free in a good environment. Living in a city means I must move to get to that environment.
modi15 7y ago
Had to walk my dog after dinner for atleast 30mins EVERY SINGLE DAY while he was around. That itself should account for this.
- samwhiteUK 7y ago
  The way you say that makes me think you underestimated having a dog, or somehow think that your dog in particular was hard work..
  - modi15 7y ago
    I actually didnt go out and got a dog for myself - I somehow got possession of him through a coincidental sequence of events. I didn't mean that my dog in particular was hard work - I guess all dogs are like this and which is why they accrue the claimed health benefits to their caretakers.
jmull 7y ago
My experience is that a dog requires a minimum of 45 minutes walking a day, day in, day out, for years on end. They are also indefatigable life coaches who simply will not take no for an answer. (Your human life coach probably won’t jump up on the bed where you are trying to ignore them and start licking your face, or bark “Out! Out! Out!” at you hundreds of times in a row.) And if you still manage to blow off your dog, your reward is a nice pile of crap and puddles of pee in your house. Meanwhile, the walks are enjoyable. So you are pretty much going to be a regular walker if you take care of a dog. (Well, there are workarounds for some situations and some dogs, but why swim upstream on something like this?)
- tjr225 7y ago
  > Meanwhile, the walks are enjoyable. Non-dog owners often complain about how much work a dog would be, but I find the time spent walking and playing with my dogs far more enjoyable and rewarding than most things.
  - 8fingerlouie 7y ago
    I hardly notice my dog when we walk. I'm of course aware he's there, and we exchange looks every now and then to make sure we're still aligned on which way to go, but the thing i enjoy the most about our walks is the total peace and quiet, both of the surroundings, but also of the mind. I can walk my dog, enjoy nature and just let my mind wander off to whatever it finds most interesting at that point. I don't attempt to control my thoughts, i simply let them wander. In a way i guess it's like meditation, and yes, i also enjoy walking in the rain, perhaps even more than in fair weather - though 0C and sleet is testing my patience :)
  - astura 7y ago
    It's not as unintuitive as it sounds... It seems like a tautology but you have to actually enjoy interacting with dogs to find dog ownership enjoyable and rewarding. Many people just don't find any sort of joy in a dog's company. Personally, I don't really care to be being around dogs, I'd strongly prefer to take walks myself (and I do). The more time I spend with friend's dogs the more I dislike them. However I absolutely love being around cats and few things are more enjoyable than a cat in my lap.
killjoywashere 7y ago
Anybody have ready comparison numbers for "modern miracles" like statins and ACE inhibitors? Because 24% reduction in mortality is, in medicine, a staggering number when you're looking at something as prevalent as heart disease (roughly 50% of people will die of an heart attack). Edit, here's some starters: ACE inhibitors: 5% (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23750680 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23750680) Statins: no benefit (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/416105 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...) Aspirin: might actually be bad for you (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1803955 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1803955)
- nervousvarun 7y ago
  Only a matter of time until the U.S. government classifies dogs as a "Schedule I Substance" and these positive health-related research statistics begin to disappear.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  Well, to start, you can't compare an intervention (starting an ACE inhibitor treatment) to an existent factor (they already own a dog). If you're going to compare apples to apples, you've got to compare starting an ACE inhibitor treatment to starting to own a dog. It may sound farfetched, but there's nothing in the OP that indicates the direction of causality to me, so it's possible that lower cardiovascular risk causes people to go out and get dogs, or that there's some root cause which causes people to both have lower cardiovascular risk and higher chance of owning a dog.
jeffml84 7y ago
I recently got a "rescue" and she is something else. It's difficult to think of them as just animals. Sometimes I feel guilty for being stressed, I feel like she's soaking it all up and I'm stressing her out. Incredibly empathetic animals.
- defterGoose 7y ago
  They are more than animals in that they're one of the only animals that would be considered a family member. Really makes you consider whether "love" is a noun or a verb.
  - jeffml84 7y ago
    Honestly, I used to say things like "I understand you care about your pets, but you should not love them equal to a human. We should be aware of how we value animals compared to humans." Then I got a dog. :P
carrozo 7y ago
My dog saved my life; unconditional two-way love and the responsibility of caring for another being got me out of my own head, and that cascaded out through every other area of my life in untold ways. It’s a massive cliche, but he really is my best friend and I can’t imagine life without him.
oldgradstudent 7y ago
So healthy people like to own dogs?
bluedino 7y ago
The bad part about a dog is that it will only be around for 8-15 years.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  To love is to accept suffering.
  - defterGoose 7y ago
    Huh, is this a quote from somewhere?
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
      Not that I'm aware of, it's just how it is. Everything is ephemeral, so we allow ourselves to love in the knowledge that it is not forever, and that when it ends, no matter how it ends, it will be painful. To love something is to extend your concept of self to encompass it, and when it is gone it will be as though a piece of yourself has been torn from you. We accept this inevitability regardless, because to love is better than the alternative.
- stronglikedan 7y ago
  That's also the good part, sometimes.
ben7799 7y ago
I'm sure this is legit but I wonder how they controlled for people who just go for a walk and/or get exercise every day even if they don't have a dog? But no disagreement, if you're a couch potato who is not otherwise motivated to go for a walk the dog will be an ultra powerful motivator, and you're not going for a walk alone.
- awillen 7y ago
  Yeah, I've always said the best exercise plan I ever started was getting a dog who had severe separation anxiety and would destroy all my shit if left alone even briefly without adequate exercise (and he's a young husky mix, so we're talking 5+ brisk miles). He's doing much better with the anxiety now, but we're still walking miles every day.
simonebrunozzi 7y ago
Slightly off-topic, but I am looking into good ways to train a dog (books, etc). Anybody has any recommendation?
- Jemaclus 7y ago
  Find a local dog trainer! They're worth every penny.
magwa101 7y ago
In related news, walking one or two times per day, for any duration, reduces cardiovascular disease.
henvic 7y ago
I found a dog about 7 months ago in the streets on the beach in my hometown in Brazil and moved to the Netherlands three weeks ago with him. After a couple of weeks taking care of him (and trying to find the previous owner - who might have abandoned him or not), I was very attached. Actually, during my last job interview for my current job here in NL, I was cuddling him as I spoke with the interviewers (my current coworkers). Not sure if that helped, but for sure, I felt more confident and calm. Once I accepted their offer, I knew I just couldn't leave him behind.

86 points by Kaibeezy 7y ago

Pooling the data of 3 837 005 participants, dog ownership was associated with a 24% risk reduction for all-cause mortality as compared to nonownership (relative risk, 0.76; 95% CI, 0.67–0.86). In analyses of studies evaluating cardiovascular mortality, dog ownership conferred a 31% risk reduction for cardiovascular death (relative risk, 0.69; 95% CI, 0.67–0.71; I2, 5.1%). Dog ownership is associated with lower risk of death over the long term, which is possibly driven by a reduction in cardiovascular mortality. These results hold implications for future studies on lifestyle interventions.

tomp 7y ago
> dog ownership was associated with a 24% risk reduction for all-cause mortality What does that mean? Do dog owners have only 76% chance of dying, as opposed to 100% like the rest of us? I'm probably misinterpreting the statement...
- jonasmst 7y ago
  Usually, in survival analysis, it means that at any point in time, the likelihood of an event (e.g. death, heart-disease, whatever they're measuring) occurring for dog-owners is 76% of that of non-dog owners. The risk varies from time to time, e.g. with age, and it's 76% of that risk. If the risk at a certain point is 10% for non-dog owners, it's 7.6% for dog owners. It's not like dog people are immortal.
  - asdkhadsj 7y ago
    > It's not like dog people are immortal. Depends on how many dogs you own. With enough dogs, you can invert your death likelihood stats. Though, I imagine that would mean as you age, you buy more dogs. Moving to the country seems required to house all of the dogs. Furthermore, the number of dogs would depend on how the math worked on the 76% of risk. Perhaps for true immortality we'd need an infinite number of dogs.

qmmmur 7y ago

People who have the means to own and care for a dog will probably have a better diet, less stress, more time to exercise and go to the doctor. I doubt dogs have a magical health aura.

swebs 7y ago
I see hobos with dogs.
- tomalpha 7y ago
  This might have been your point, but it would indeed be interesting to know whether they have better or worse health outcomes than those without dogs.
  - kolp 7y ago
    One of the purposes of the dog is to discourage arrest for petty offences. The police officer has to take care of the dog if the crusty is arrested, so police are less inclined to arrest if the person can be moved on with a warning.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      >One of the purposes of the dog is to discourage arrest for petty offences Also works great for letting you trespass anywhere you could conceivably want to walk a dog that isn't obviously posted.
8fingerlouie 7y ago
Dogs require frequent walks if you don't plan on cleaning your floors/carpets daily. Could it just not be that people who own and _care_ for a dog get exercise daily, as opposed to just sitting in a couch binging netflix all day ? Recent studies have proved that walking is a great source of exercise, and depending on dog size you get 2-10km walks per day (1-6 freedom units)
- 7y ago

INTPenis 7y ago

In my periods of sadness I wouldn't have left the house if it weren't for my dog. And in all other times she's the reason I take the bicycle to the beach or the woods. Even after 2 years I still melt seeing her joy when running around free in a good environment. Living in a city means I must move to get to that environment.

modi15 7y ago

Had to walk my dog after dinner for atleast 30mins EVERY SINGLE DAY while he was around. That itself should account for this.

samwhiteUK 7y ago
The way you say that makes me think you underestimated having a dog, or somehow think that your dog in particular was hard work..
- modi15 7y ago
  I actually didnt go out and got a dog for myself - I somehow got possession of him through a coincidental sequence of events. I didn't mean that my dog in particular was hard work - I guess all dogs are like this and which is why they accrue the claimed health benefits to their caretakers.

jmull 7y ago

My experience is that a dog requires a minimum of 45 minutes walking a day, day in, day out, for years on end. They are also indefatigable life coaches who simply will not take no for an answer. (Your human life coach probably won’t jump up on the bed where you are trying to ignore them and start licking your face, or bark “Out! Out! Out!” at you hundreds of times in a row.) And if you still manage to blow off your dog, your reward is a nice pile of crap and puddles of pee in your house. Meanwhile, the walks are enjoyable. So you are pretty much going to be a regular walker if you take care of a dog. (Well, there are workarounds for some situations and some dogs, but why swim upstream on something like this?)

tjr225 7y ago
> Meanwhile, the walks are enjoyable. Non-dog owners often complain about how much work a dog would be, but I find the time spent walking and playing with my dogs far more enjoyable and rewarding than most things.
- 8fingerlouie 7y ago
  I hardly notice my dog when we walk. I'm of course aware he's there, and we exchange looks every now and then to make sure we're still aligned on which way to go, but the thing i enjoy the most about our walks is the total peace and quiet, both of the surroundings, but also of the mind. I can walk my dog, enjoy nature and just let my mind wander off to whatever it finds most interesting at that point. I don't attempt to control my thoughts, i simply let them wander. In a way i guess it's like meditation, and yes, i also enjoy walking in the rain, perhaps even more than in fair weather - though 0C and sleet is testing my patience :)
- astura 7y ago
  It's not as unintuitive as it sounds... It seems like a tautology but you have to actually enjoy interacting with dogs to find dog ownership enjoyable and rewarding. Many people just don't find any sort of joy in a dog's company. Personally, I don't really care to be being around dogs, I'd strongly prefer to take walks myself (and I do). The more time I spend with friend's dogs the more I dislike them. However I absolutely love being around cats and few things are more enjoyable than a cat in my lap.

killjoywashere 7y ago

Anybody have ready comparison numbers for "modern miracles" like statins and ACE inhibitors? Because 24% reduction in mortality is, in medicine, a staggering number when you're looking at something as prevalent as heart disease (roughly 50% of people will die of an heart attack). Edit, here's some starters: ACE inhibitors: 5% (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23750680 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23750680) Statins: no benefit (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/416105 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...) Aspirin: might actually be bad for you (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1803955 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1803955)

nervousvarun 7y ago
Only a matter of time until the U.S. government classifies dogs as a "Schedule I Substance" and these positive health-related research statistics begin to disappear.
kerkeslager 7y ago
Well, to start, you can't compare an intervention (starting an ACE inhibitor treatment) to an existent factor (they already own a dog). If you're going to compare apples to apples, you've got to compare starting an ACE inhibitor treatment to starting to own a dog. It may sound farfetched, but there's nothing in the OP that indicates the direction of causality to me, so it's possible that lower cardiovascular risk causes people to go out and get dogs, or that there's some root cause which causes people to both have lower cardiovascular risk and higher chance of owning a dog.

jeffml84 7y ago

I recently got a "rescue" and she is something else. It's difficult to think of them as just animals. Sometimes I feel guilty for being stressed, I feel like she's soaking it all up and I'm stressing her out. Incredibly empathetic animals.

defterGoose 7y ago
They are more than animals in that they're one of the only animals that would be considered a family member. Really makes you consider whether "love" is a noun or a verb.
- jeffml84 7y ago
  Honestly, I used to say things like "I understand you care about your pets, but you should not love them equal to a human. We should be aware of how we value animals compared to humans." Then I got a dog. :P

carrozo 7y ago

My dog saved my life; unconditional two-way love and the responsibility of caring for another being got me out of my own head, and that cascaded out through every other area of my life in untold ways. It’s a massive cliche, but he really is my best friend and I can’t imagine life without him.

oldgradstudent 7y ago

So healthy people like to own dogs?

bluedino 7y ago

The bad part about a dog is that it will only be around for 8-15 years.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
To love is to accept suffering.
- defterGoose 7y ago
  Huh, is this a quote from somewhere?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    Not that I'm aware of, it's just how it is. Everything is ephemeral, so we allow ourselves to love in the knowledge that it is not forever, and that when it ends, no matter how it ends, it will be painful. To love something is to extend your concept of self to encompass it, and when it is gone it will be as though a piece of yourself has been torn from you. We accept this inevitability regardless, because to love is better than the alternative.
stronglikedan 7y ago
That's also the good part, sometimes.

ben7799 7y ago

I'm sure this is legit but I wonder how they controlled for people who just go for a walk and/or get exercise every day even if they don't have a dog? But no disagreement, if you're a couch potato who is not otherwise motivated to go for a walk the dog will be an ultra powerful motivator, and you're not going for a walk alone.

awillen 7y ago
Yeah, I've always said the best exercise plan I ever started was getting a dog who had severe separation anxiety and would destroy all my shit if left alone even briefly without adequate exercise (and he's a young husky mix, so we're talking 5+ brisk miles). He's doing much better with the anxiety now, but we're still walking miles every day.

simonebrunozzi 7y ago

Slightly off-topic, but I am looking into good ways to train a dog (books, etc). Anybody has any recommendation?

Jemaclus 7y ago
Find a local dog trainer! They're worth every penny.

magwa101 7y ago

In related news, walking one or two times per day, for any duration, reduces cardiovascular disease.

henvic 7y ago

I found a dog about 7 months ago in the streets on the beach in my hometown in Brazil and moved to the Netherlands three weeks ago with him. After a couple of weeks taking care of him (and trying to find the previous owner - who might have abandoned him or not), I was very attached. Actually, during my last job interview for my current job here in NL, I was cuddling him as I spoke with the interviewers (my current coworkers). Not sure if that helped, but for sure, I felt more confident and calm. Once I accepted their offer, I knew I just couldn't leave him behind.