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It's never a quick script for a big company. I'd hate to be the engineer who has to talk to all people and ask them about how they are processing user data, wh

It's never a quick script for a big company. I'd hate to be the engineer who has to talk to all people and ask them about how they are processing user data, where are they storing logs, what happens to it.... it's the most boring work you can imagine for a programmer. At the same time it's great that people can learn about these things.

Symbiote 7y ago
Those conversations and boring meeting should already have taken place.
rrdharan 7y ago
I don’t actually think that work is boring at all. Moreover I think it behooves us all to change the prevailing attitude and perception of this type of work; it can be quite technically complex and it is very impactful both to the business as well as more importantly on the moral/ethical front. I am biased of course as I work on various aspects of GDPR compliance, data retention and deletion, encryption compliance, etc. I used to think this stuff was really boring compared to high scalability, graphics, schedulers etc. (all of which I have worked on in past lives); lately I think it is both interesting and crucially important hence my comment.
- xiphias2 7y ago
  It is important and complex and hard work, I never questend that. I questioned the ,,just a quick script'' part actually. But I doubt that it can be as interesting as working on the game engine where you get visual feedback. If you look at the software market, there are lots of stories about game programmers being underpayed compared to other programmers even when they have better knowledge about the inner workings of the computer hardware. There is a valid reason for it.
- marmaduke 7y ago
  I'm curious what you think about GDPR compliance when user data has made its way into a ML model via training. Do we have to retrain without?, etc
  - xiphias2 7y ago
    Generally there are rules about using only anonymized and aggregated data in ML systems inside corporations that are reviewed by lawyers. Also if you are using the data to help the user, and it's explained to the user, it is legal. But I'm not a GDPR expert, others here on HN know much more about it.
  - DoubleMalt 7y ago
    That's simple. If it is a model that was trained with only that person's data and is therefore connected to it, it is PII (personally identifiable data) and must be deleted. If the model aggregates the data of multiple people and is disconnected from the individual it does not constitute PII and can be kept.
kabacha 7y ago
I fully agree with your first statement - not so much with the second one: data hacking can be fun! But yeah there are no quick scripts in corporate software, even though Blizzard claims to use agile development I doubt the effectiveness of it. I remember some small vital features/fixes in world of warcraft would be delayed to next expension because "they already had a road map in place" - agile my ass lol.
- logicchains 7y ago
  >I remember some small vital features/fixes in world of warcraft would be delayed to next expension because "they already had a road map in place" That might just be their polite way of saying "lol bugger off, I'm busy".
- xiphias2 7y ago
  Data hacking is fun. But what about reading law, understanding if your company is compliant to the law or not, making those compliance changes, and knowing that if you made a mistake the company takes a huge financial responsibility? My girlfriend was doing these things for her 2 person software company, and she was more scared about making a mistake than having fun.

Symbiote 7y ago

Those conversations and boring meeting should already have taken place.

rrdharan 7y ago

I don’t actually think that work is boring at all. Moreover I think it behooves us all to change the prevailing attitude and perception of this type of work; it can be quite technically complex and it is very impactful both to the business as well as more importantly on the moral/ethical front. I am biased of course as I work on various aspects of GDPR compliance, data retention and deletion, encryption compliance, etc. I used to think this stuff was really boring compared to high scalability, graphics, schedulers etc. (all of which I have worked on in past lives); lately I think it is both interesting and crucially important hence my comment.

xiphias2 7y ago
It is important and complex and hard work, I never questend that. I questioned the ,,just a quick script'' part actually. But I doubt that it can be as interesting as working on the game engine where you get visual feedback. If you look at the software market, there are lots of stories about game programmers being underpayed compared to other programmers even when they have better knowledge about the inner workings of the computer hardware. There is a valid reason for it.
marmaduke 7y ago
I'm curious what you think about GDPR compliance when user data has made its way into a ML model via training. Do we have to retrain without?, etc
- xiphias2 7y ago
  Generally there are rules about using only anonymized and aggregated data in ML systems inside corporations that are reviewed by lawyers. Also if you are using the data to help the user, and it's explained to the user, it is legal. But I'm not a GDPR expert, others here on HN know much more about it.
- DoubleMalt 7y ago
  That's simple. If it is a model that was trained with only that person's data and is therefore connected to it, it is PII (personally identifiable data) and must be deleted. If the model aggregates the data of multiple people and is disconnected from the individual it does not constitute PII and can be kept.

kabacha 7y ago

I fully agree with your first statement - not so much with the second one: data hacking can be fun! But yeah there are no quick scripts in corporate software, even though Blizzard claims to use agile development I doubt the effectiveness of it. I remember some small vital features/fixes in world of warcraft would be delayed to next expension because "they already had a road map in place" - agile my ass lol.

logicchains 7y ago
>I remember some small vital features/fixes in world of warcraft would be delayed to next expension because "they already had a road map in place" That might just be their polite way of saying "lol bugger off, I'm busy".
xiphias2 7y ago
Data hacking is fun. But what about reading law, understanding if your company is compliant to the law or not, making those compliance changes, and knowing that if you made a mistake the company takes a huge financial responsibility? My girlfriend was doing these things for her 2 person software company, and she was more scared about making a mistake than having fun.