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H.264 is probably superior to webm. I don't understand video codecs, but it's the consensus opinion among people who know this stuff. However, I fail to see how

H.264 is probably superior to webm. I don't understand video codecs, but it's the consensus opinion among people who know this stuff. However, I fail to see how its relevant in any way. The tegra2 can already decode 1080p vp8 in hardware, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't notice the difference between a 720p video in webm and another in H.264 in terms of performance on your x86 cpu. The inefficiency, if any, would be negligible.

patrickaljord 16y ago
H.264 baseline codec is similar to vp8, not superior. And baseline is what is used on mobile and all hardware encoders, so the highest versions of H.264 don't even matter.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- pohl 16y ago
  ...baseline is what is used on mobile... That's the market segment that the baseline profile was conceived for, but the phone in my pocket and the tablet on my nightstand both support the main profile. Sure, most content that I view on it is probably encoded in baseline, but there are 17 million iPads in the wild that support the main profile. Edit: it's not just iOS devices, either. The Playstation Portable supports the main profile too. There are around 62 million of them out there. VP8 needs to skate to where the puck is going to be, as it were.
  - ZeroGravitas 16y ago
    The iPad really should have supported High Profile. No-one's going to encode a 3rd version for the iPad when everyone else jumped straight from Baseline to High, which means it's effectively Baseline. Seems strange that the iPhone 4 got better specs so shortly after (much like the 256MB memory). I'm sure they'll fix it in the next rev though, which just increases the chance that rev. 1 devices will be served Baseline. edit: I just checked and the iPhone's only 720p Main Profile too? I'm confused now, I was sure iPhone 4 went to High Profile.
    - pohl 16y ago
      when everyone else jumped straight from Baseline to High Interesting. Which mobile device(s) did that, and what decoder chip(s) did they use?
      - vetinari 16y ago
        He is talking about content providers, not devices. It is really diificult to find main@ bitsreams in the wild.
- Locke1689 16y ago
  What? Who told you that? H.264 baseline is definitely superior to VP8. The 8x8 transform block basically ensures that.
  - vetinari 16y ago
    The x264 developer often cited by H.264 proponents. He wrote, that VP8 is slightly better than H.264 baseline.
    - Locke1689 16y ago
      Jason GG? Yes. He did. When he agreed with me. He even confirmed my suspicion about 8x8[1]. [1] http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/archives/377 http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/archives/377
      - ZeroGravitas 16y ago
        Quote from your link: "VP8 is simply way too similar to H.264: a pithy, if slightly inaccurate, description of VP8 would be “H.264 Baseline Profile with a better entropy coder” I believe this was written before the update that acknowledges that VP8 has a partial analogue for B-Frames (which aren't present in Baseline H.264). Another quote: "The primary weaknesses mentioned above are the lack of proper adaptive quantization, lack of B-frames, lack of an 8×8 transform, and non-adaptive loop filter. With this in mind, I expect VP8 to be more comparable to VC-1 or H.264 Baseline Profile than with H.264" I guess it's arguable what he actually means because he's not explicit but I read both quotes together (and indeed the whole piece) as saying the VP8 spec is better than the H.264 Baseline spec. Whether that translates in the actual encoders, depends mostly on the particular H.264 encoder.

patrickaljord 16y ago

H.264 baseline codec is similar to vp8, not superior. And baseline is what is used on mobile and all hardware encoders, so the highest versions of H.264 don't even matter.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
pohl 16y ago
...baseline is what is used on mobile... That's the market segment that the baseline profile was conceived for, but the phone in my pocket and the tablet on my nightstand both support the main profile. Sure, most content that I view on it is probably encoded in baseline, but there are 17 million iPads in the wild that support the main profile. Edit: it's not just iOS devices, either. The Playstation Portable supports the main profile too. There are around 62 million of them out there. VP8 needs to skate to where the puck is going to be, as it were.
- ZeroGravitas 16y ago
  The iPad really should have supported High Profile. No-one's going to encode a 3rd version for the iPad when everyone else jumped straight from Baseline to High, which means it's effectively Baseline. Seems strange that the iPhone 4 got better specs so shortly after (much like the 256MB memory). I'm sure they'll fix it in the next rev though, which just increases the chance that rev. 1 devices will be served Baseline. edit: I just checked and the iPhone's only 720p Main Profile too? I'm confused now, I was sure iPhone 4 went to High Profile.
  - pohl 16y ago
    when everyone else jumped straight from Baseline to High Interesting. Which mobile device(s) did that, and what decoder chip(s) did they use?
    - vetinari 16y ago
      He is talking about content providers, not devices. It is really diificult to find main@ bitsreams in the wild.
Locke1689 16y ago
What? Who told you that? H.264 baseline is definitely superior to VP8. The 8x8 transform block basically ensures that.
- vetinari 16y ago
  The x264 developer often cited by H.264 proponents. He wrote, that VP8 is slightly better than H.264 baseline.
  - Locke1689 16y ago
    Jason GG? Yes. He did. When he agreed with me. He even confirmed my suspicion about 8x8[1]. [1] http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/archives/377 http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/archives/377
    - ZeroGravitas 16y ago
      Quote from your link: "VP8 is simply way too similar to H.264: a pithy, if slightly inaccurate, description of VP8 would be “H.264 Baseline Profile with a better entropy coder” I believe this was written before the update that acknowledges that VP8 has a partial analogue for B-Frames (which aren't present in Baseline H.264). Another quote: "The primary weaknesses mentioned above are the lack of proper adaptive quantization, lack of B-frames, lack of an 8×8 transform, and non-adaptive loop filter. With this in mind, I expect VP8 to be more comparable to VC-1 or H.264 Baseline Profile than with H.264" I guess it's arguable what he actually means because he's not explicit but I read both quotes together (and indeed the whole piece) as saying the VP8 spec is better than the H.264 Baseline spec. Whether that translates in the actual encoders, depends mostly on the particular H.264 encoder.