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Starving cancer by cutting off its favorite foods
- tick_tock_tick 7y agoI wonder if occasional long term fasts can reduce your cancer risk.
- Florin_Andrei 7y agoI came here to say this. Seems like an intuitive conclusion. OTOH, intuition is sometimes wrong. It should be a pretty simple study to do. Just make sure to get enough people involved. Then correlate amount of fasting with the incidence of cancer over some period of time. I guess the duration of the study would be the only impediment.
- anon1m0us 7y agoFrom my research, yes it can. I read a study that said patients who fast during chemotherapy treatments fare better too. The mechanism seems to be that during periods of fasting, normal cells "hunker down" and restrict the consumption of nutrients and other materials. Cancer cells don't do this though and continue to consume the nutrients, which are actually chemotherapy drugs in the patients. Fasting therfore increases the absorption of chemo by the cancer cells and reduces the consumption by normal cells keeping the patient healthier. Fasting also enables the body to more completely rid itself of cancerous cells by consuming them in the absence of alternative sources of nutrition. Lots of reasons why fasting is a good thing.
- DoreenMichele 7y agoAbout 75-80% of the immune cells in your body can be found in the gut. I suspect that one thing fasting does is frees up those cells to do other stuff.
- jacobolus 7y agoAre there any studies of the impact of fasting on chronic viral infections, etc.?
- DoreenMichele 7y agoI have no idea. Anecdotally, I've seen people comment on HN and Reddit that fasting helped them with some chronic health issue or other. Here's an HN comment that says he was on antibiotics constantly until he tried fasting: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20279338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20279338 If you find any such studies, please share. Thanks.
- newen 7y agoGot any links to the research? Would be helpful to me and other readers. Thanks.
- daniel_iversen 7y agoI’ve read and heard about it quite a bit recently. Not sure but maybe start here, Valter Longo seems to be doing some interesting stuff: https://valterlongo.com/cancer/ https://valterlongo.com/cancer/
- mindviews 7y agoHere's a description of a "press-pulse" protocol that includes fasting, calorie restriction, and ketogenic diet scenarios (main goal seems to be to limit glucose intake as part of the treatment as part of an effort at stressing the energy systems of the cancer cells to cause cell death): https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12986-017-0178-2 https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10... Check the references for some other papers on fasting and chemotherapy. Also, here's a related human case study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29651419 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29651419
- anon1m0us 7y agoThere's a lot of research about it. I posted some above. You can search and find lots. It's all out there.
- ycalu 7y agoThis article reviews and discusses a lot of the key research related to the use of fasting for chemotherapy. https://longevityy.com/fasting-and-cancer-how-fasting-before-chemotherapy-reduces-side-effects-improves-efficacy/ https://longevityy.com/fasting-and-cancer-how-fasting-before... Papers it discusses include: * Starvation-dependent differential stress resistance protects normal but not cancer cells against high-dose chemotherapy – Lizzia Raffaghello, Valter Longo et al. (2008) https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wmq7q6azyzfsubm/AACoCigKOQYxthruLAuynC_Ya/Cancer/2008_PNAS_LizziaRaffaghello.pdf?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wmq7q6azyzfsubm/AACoCigKOQYxthruL... * The effects of short-term fasting on tolerance to (neo) adjuvant chemotherapy in HER2-negative breast cancer patients: a randomized pilot study – Stefanie de Groot et al. (2015) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4595051/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4595051/ * Fasting and cancer treatment in humans: A case series report – Valter Longo et al. (2009) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815756/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815756/ * Fasting-Mimicking Diet Reduces HO-1 to Promote T Cell-Mediated Tumor Cytotoxicity – Di Biase et al. (2016) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27411588 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27411588 * The effects of short-term fasting on quality of life and tolerance to chemotherapy in patients with breast and ovarian cancer: a randomized cross-over pilot study – Bauersfeld et al (2018) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29699509 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29699509
- snowwrestler 7y agoThis information is dangerously wrong. I have asked several oncologists specifically about fasting during chemotherapy and they all recommended strongly against it. Your understanding of how chemotherapy works with cancer and healthy cells seems flawed. Chemo harms all fast-growing cells, healthy or not. That’s why people have terrible tastes, stomach problems, hair and skin problems during chemo; those are all fast-growing cells. They grow fast whether you are fasting or not; but killing them in large numbers (what the chemo does) raises the body’s demand for energy and nutrients just to maintain health. That demand must be met with healthy food and drink. Edit to add: Fasting by a healthy person may reduce their chances of developing cancer; that seems plausible to me. My point is that people undergoing chemotherapy should follow the directions of the doctors. In my experience, those directions are to eat well while receiving treatment.
- anon1m0us 7y agohttps://bmccancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12885-018-4353-2 https://bmccancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12885-... > Conclusion > [Short Term Fasting] during chemotherapy is well tolerated and appears to improve QOL and fatigue during chemotherapy. https://jeccr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13046-019-1189-9 https://jeccr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13046-019-... > Abundant and convincing preclinical evidence shows that STF can decrease toxicity and simultaneously increase efficacy of a wide variety of chemotherapeutic agents. https://osher.ucsf.edu/patient-care/integrative-medicine-resources/cancer-and-nutrition/faq/cancer-and-fasting-calorie-restriction https://osher.ucsf.edu/patient-care/integrative-medicine-res... > For general cancer prevention, it may be beneficial to add intermittent or short-term fasts in combination with a plant-based cancer prevention diet and >Fasting may also protect patients against the harmful side effects of chemotherapy or radiation therapy. and > They concluded that a 3-day fast could help regenerate a strong immune system > Additional research in both rodents and monkeys have shown that when CR was started by 12 months of age, lifespan was increased and incidence of spontaneous cancers was reduced by 50%. > Furthermore, it is theorized that cancer cells do not respond to the protective signals generated by fasting, thus leaving them vulnerable to both the immune system and cancer treatment. I feel like this is sufficient to refute your several oncologists' anecdotal opinions which are not supported by the research. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324169.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324169.php > There is a growing body of evidence supporting the role of fasting in both cancer treatment and prevention. Lots of links to sources in that article too. You have to be very careful relying on the advice of oncologists. Think about what their motivations are. What are their biases? I dealt with this very personally for a long time and found oncologists to be ... human and suffer from all the same problems as other humans. Their patients are ... dying and they don't want to die. It's a very emotional time for all involved.
- DrScump 7y agomore completely rid itself of cancerous cells by consuming them I don't think that's the mechanism of action.
- randaouser 7y agoTo reach a ketogenic state, the term fast from a clinical sense required 24-36 hour period without any caloric intake; strictly water. I have done 3 day water fasts, the hunger waves need to be controlled the first 2 days, but the feeling is gone after that point. There are many things to consider, including refeeding syndrome, it is highly advised to seek MD advice prior to undertaking such a diet. Lastly, there is a ton of research highlighting fasting and its effects on stem cell regenerative properties.
- lukifer 7y agoOne thing that surprised me when water fasting was that while the hunger went away on the second day (starting in ketosis helps), I found myself still craving the reward and ritual of meals. Lunchtime arrived, and I missed the excuse to take a break from life/obligations and indulge in the enjoyable process of eating, independently from satiating hunger. I think when I do it again, I'll find some non-consuming activities to fill that void.
- justsomeone88 7y agoProlonged fasts (dry and water fasts) are the key to getting well and curing a long list of diseases. Edit: I don't want to provide sources. Me not providing a source on demand for the HN crowd does not mean this is not true. Do your own research, or don't.
- Zelphyr 7y agoPlease provide sources. You've made multiple statements like this on this thread with either specious sources or none at all.
- surge 7y agoSupposedly it can, because your body when lacking nutrition for several days (I think like 5 at least) will break down weak/damaged cells for protein, which usually are the ones most likely to turn cancerous at some point. This is what I've read on the topic and longetivity studies on people who go on long term fasts seem to support it. That's what I've been told/read on the topic, but I'm not an expert by any means.
- abledon 7y agoYes. Do a fast at the start of Spring & Fall. I always respected the religions that observed some sort of fast, as it was a cool way they encoded health & longevity into their population.
- lukifer 7y agoPerhaps a good rule of thumb: any time a significant number of worldwide religions independently converge on a single practice/idea, there may be something of value there worth porting to the secular world (see also: the sabbath, and the "golden rule").
- FakeComments 7y agoMeditation/mindfulness is another example.
- cco 7y agoIf I ever retire and become a cult leader this is my pet religion, I call it Vennism. Combine all the teachings and trim away those teachings that aren't common, what you're left with seems like it would probably be a good religion right?
- reggieband 7y agoKinda like the Perennial Philosophy [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_philosophy
- bahrd 7y agoSounds good, but no kool-aid. We gotta mix all the other religious drinks instead. Thinking like a trippy sangria. You got the Christian wine, some Shamanic ayahuasca, Buddhist tea, Muslim qahwa, maybe a little blood of the innocent for the Satanists out there.
- DiabloD3 7y agoThe use of carb and glutamine restriction (see the work of Dr Thomas Seyfried) to boost the effectiveness of cancer treatments was modeled after fasting-mimicking diets. Essentially, Seyfried's work is basically that diet, but in a pill. Actual long term fasting (ie, 3-5 day hardcore mode shit) allows the body to maximize autophagy to kill off damaged cells. The western diet of 3 square meals a day and keeping insulin levels alarmingly high (which both frequent and carb-laden diets promote) stops autophagy (for safety reasons; you don't want to accidentally attack cells doing their tasks to absorb and utilize nutrients). So yeah, given what is known about cancer today, I personally eat keto omad (one meal a day intermittent fasting) within a 4 hour window every day, and periodically fast on top of that.
- bob1029 7y agoI do feel there is something very substantial regarding the various human metabolic states as they relate to these seemingly "everywhere" diseases that have no definitive causes. Ketogenesis is arguably the most ideal state for our bodies to operate in, but it is also arguably the hardest one to maintain in our society. It is difficult for most to consistently ignore that big-ass box of krispy kreme donuts your asshole coworker brings in every day. Just one of those per day is probably enough to keep you stuck in glycogenesis for the rest of the morning and into part of the afternoon. If you look at the push of HFCS and other crappy food options with incidence rates of cancer over the last 3 decades, I am pretty sure you will see some correlation there. Obviously, it is hard to draw a causal link between these, but at a certain point I am going to give up on the academic explanation in favor of a series of practical observations and whatever inferences I can draw from those. I am also acutely aware of the influence of profit seeking in the medical & academic communities. When I see a study come out that says something along the lines of "sugar isn't actually that bad for you" I immediately think big sugar or corn financed this research piece for their own benefit. I have personally fasted for stretches as long as 5 days, been on one-meal-a-day, and have been on ketogenic diets for months at a time. I have also been a complete waste of a human, eating and binging on all manner of sugary, carb-loaded foods and other unspeakable horrors. I can tell you that 100% of the time, I felt better in the ketogenic state. Sure, you can argue for that very brief feel-good you get from slamming that donut, or the mental fortitude required to force yourself into keto. But, at the end of the day, once you are keto it's easy. It's just the transition phase that sucks. As with most things.
- toast0 7y ago> It is difficult for most to consistently ignore that big-ass box of krispy kreme donuts Krispy Kreme donuts are easy to avoid ... Donuts from your local hole in the wall donut shop on the other hand.
- rmrfnodemodules 7y agoAnyone here doing keto diet? I've been doing it for about 6 months and I feel more concentrated and energized. I wonder what anyone else feel about doing keto diet?
- dev_dull 7y ago> your body closely regulates the level of glucose in your blood. Your brain would literally starve without it. Is this actually true? Having done the ketogenic diet and bringing carbohydrates down to almost nothing, my brain definitely didn't starve. In fact, running on ketones was amazing.
- justsomeone88 7y agoNo. All the excess protein you likely consumed has actually increased your risk of cancer significantly.
- dplgk 7y agoSource?
- justsomeone88 7y agoStart here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R07FL1wVo4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R07FL1wVo4
- caenorst 7y agoWhen did Youtube videos started to be reference source ? I can't find any academic references on her work despite her putting "Ph.D" title after her name on every plateform existing.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- frisco 7y agoThis statement isn't supported by any real evidence. In fact, a lot of actual research supports the idea of keto for improving outcomes in some types of cancer.
- surge 7y ago
- spacephysics 7y agoA carnivorous diet (meat only, zero carbs) would accomplish the same without the pharmacological drawback. Been on the diet for over a year and have never felt better in my life.
- toomuchtodo 7y agoKeto diet is very similar.
- justsomeone88 7y agoKeto/carnivore is incredibly dangerous to the human body in the long run (5+ years out). Excess protein (in fact, even in the amounts society recognizes as "normal") is bad for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R07FL1wVo4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R07FL1wVo4
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Mountain_Skies 7y agoThe Vegetarian Society of Hawaii isn't exactly an unbiased source. Maybe for balance we should post a video from the Texas Cattlemen's Association.
- stevespang 7y agoOh yeah, those who murder innocent animals for profit by the hundreds of thousands . . . may they glow in agony in the internal fires of hell
- reggintoggaf 7y agoNo it is not.
- koboll 7y agoThat video has a lot of pseudoscience ("leaky gut" syndrome, paleo humans never ate meat, etc.) so I'm inclined to distrust it entirely
- fortran77 7y agoIn general, people who overeat are more susceptible to many forms of cancer, and cancers are more virulent among overeaters. https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/obesity/obesity-fact-sheet https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/o... It would make sense that by limiting food intake, cancers would progress slower.
- datavirtue 7y agoPurity. Fasting, fresh vegetables, whole grains, and nuts.
- pcarolan 7y agoThe article is about what cancer eats, not what you eat. The world’s leading neuro-oncologists I’ve talked to don’t believe diet matters.
- bahrd 7y agoYep, bodies filled with glucose unless you're starving to death. Eat fat; glycogenolysis turns it into glucose for your cells; eat protein, the amino acids are used in gluconeogenesis to synthesize glucose. Pretty crucial for cellular respiration.
- entee 7y agoCancer favoring glucose has been known for a very long time, this is called the Warburg Effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warburg_effect_(oncology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warburg_effect_(oncology) Interesting new pharmacology for sure, but the end of the article is critical here: "Additionally, an accompanying commentary by William Katt and colleagues indicated that there are no FDA-approved drugs that target glucose and glutamine metabolism. This is because previous drug candidates proved to be too toxic for use in humans." It's really hard to go after glucose because it's kind of everywhere. If there's a way to target this compound more specifically, maybe it could be useful. As it stands now, it's very very far from being a viable drug (and it doesn't sound like the authors claim otherwise). Cool science though.
- tyingq 7y agoThis is how they detect cancer with a PET scan. They pump some radioactive glucose into your veins first. Tumors absorb it quicker than normal tissue, so they glow brighter on the PET scan.
- drwasho 7y agoI worked on this for multiple myeloma. DCA is nice but the concentrations you need for treating people gives them peripheral neuropathy, which isn’t trivial. But fwiw combining DCA with other drugs looks promising. The issue is that cancer is polyclonal so there is a sub-population that predominantly relies of aerobic glycolysis, but the sub-populations that mostly metabolise glutamine or fatty acids will escape treatment... so you need a bit of a shotgun approach, in combination with traditional anti-cancer agents.
- entee 7y agoThat makes sense. I think most people underappreciate how polyclonal cancer is. Every tumor isn't one cell, it's dozens or hundreds of different types of cell, which makes it extremely hard to cover all the possible escape paths for the cancer overall. As you mention, going with a shotgun approach of different drugs can help, but that's when toxicity becomes a real problem. It's not always possible to just give 2 drugs because one is so toxic on its own so you might kill the patient. One of the theories I've heard about why we've made relatively more progress on cancers in children is that they "heal" better, which means they can actually tolerate higher doses for some of these drugs.
- kd3 7y agoStarve cancer with cannabis oil with 95% THC concentration. Don't suffer, the cure has existed for thousands of years.
- ajessup 7y agoThis is great science writing. Straightforward, factual, and with context to help folks put the findings into perspective. It's a refreshing change from the hyperbolic coverage of scientific topics one often finds in more mainstream media.
- collyw 7y agoShit, a lot of things that I had considered healthy are high in glutamine.
- ycalu 7y agoIt's worth clarifying that glutamine isn't unhealthy in moderate amounts. It's just that when treating cancer, there may be opportunity to modify its intake and see benefits.
- Madmallard 7y agoI have endogenous hyperinsulinemia (mostly proinsulin). That means I really can't go without consuming sugar or I will get neuroglycopenic. What's interesting is (they don't know yet) this could be caused by a type of pancreatic cancer. Seems really bad then if the cancer itself wants more sugar. Maybe this is why Steve Jobs tended toward fruits for 9 months and ended up with metastasis...