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Has this kind of strategy ever worked, in trade negotiations? It seems about as likely to be effective as a bombing campaign: It'll reduce the other side's effe

Has this kind of strategy ever worked, in trade negotiations? It seems about as likely to be effective as a bombing campaign: It'll reduce the other side's effectiveness, but from a negotiation perspective it'll only cause them to dig in harder.

TomMckenny 7y ago
There is actually a psychological difference. There maybe some digging in but generally nations can put a literal price on trade which they can not easily do with loss of life. Likewise national honor is less at stake. I suppose we're lucky that economic enticement/force usually gets better results than violence. Whether it works in this particular case, indeed whether the goal of tariffs/sanctions is even remotely what is announced are both unclear of course. If it were humanitarian, it would be nice to mention Hong Kong in the process.
onepointsixC 7y ago
Why do you assume this is a negotiating tactic? There is broad bipartisan support for sanctions on companies which are involved in the on going oppression of Uighur's. Just as China uses it's economic might as leverage the US is more than capable of equal if not greater leverage of it's capital markets.
- AlexCoventry 7y ago
  Just taking Trump at his word. Wouldn't be the first time that turned out to be a mistake.
99_00 7y ago
China doesn't want a deal. They only want to continue to exploit the US. So the US is gradually decoupling from them.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  They're literally killing us by the tens of thousands every year. It seems like every week there's some story about a Chinese product with Mercury or other poisons. Recently we caught them smuggling enough fentanyl through our southern border to kill a billion people. I agree, the only "deal" China will accept is a total capitulation of the United States, so there will be no deal.
  - vkou 7y ago
    I like how you manage to assign blame for the actions of a few drug dealers to an entire country.
    - Consultant32452 7y ago
      There's basically one company making all this fentanyl. We know where it is, we know where the CEO lives. He's walking around free and in the open in China.
      - vkou 7y ago
        You are wrong to blame an entire country for our addiction to fentanyl. The facts are: 1. Fentanyl has legitimate pharmaceutical uses. 2. There are many, many, many legal manufacturers of Fentanyl, across the world, including Bayer, Johnson&Johnson, Meiji Seika Pharma (Japan), and yes, Chinese manufacturers. Some legal fentanyl ends up getting diverted into illegal channels. 3. There are also many, many, many illegal manufacturers of Fentanyl, again, across the world. 4. The reason for why China has had an outsized share of illegal fentanyl production is that for many years, it (and its derivatives and precursors) has not been a controlled substance. 5. Fentanyl is now a controlled substance in China, and it, its precursors, and its derivatives have been controlled substances since May 2019.
        Consultant32452 7y ago
        And yet in August we seized a Chinese shipment of fentanyl large enough to kill an entire state's worth of people. When China actually does something beyond lip service, then I'll believe you. Let's not forget, every major industry in China is controlled by the party. Whether it was a controlled substance in China is irrelevant to whether or not they're literally killing us by the tens of thousands a year. https://www.foxnews.com/media/opioid-crisis-fentanyl-china-mexico-florida https://www.foxnews.com/media/opioid-crisis-fentanyl-china-m...
- DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
  "Exploit the US" by providing cheap labor to US firms? It's scary to see jingoistic rhetoric spreading on HN. China is the new enemy du jour, and lots of people here seem to be itching for a conflict.
  - ep103 7y ago
    The tables are fundamentally imbalanced now, I see nothing wrong with the US attempting to finally start addressing the issue. The fact that US companies have been exploiting that imbalance to pursue cheap labor is irrelevant to the conversation.

TomMckenny 7y ago

There is actually a psychological difference. There maybe some digging in but generally nations can put a literal price on trade which they can not easily do with loss of life. Likewise national honor is less at stake. I suppose we're lucky that economic enticement/force usually gets better results than violence. Whether it works in this particular case, indeed whether the goal of tariffs/sanctions is even remotely what is announced are both unclear of course. If it were humanitarian, it would be nice to mention Hong Kong in the process.

onepointsixC 7y ago

Why do you assume this is a negotiating tactic? There is broad bipartisan support for sanctions on companies which are involved in the on going oppression of Uighur's. Just as China uses it's economic might as leverage the US is more than capable of equal if not greater leverage of it's capital markets.

AlexCoventry 7y ago
Just taking Trump at his word. Wouldn't be the first time that turned out to be a mistake.

99_00 7y ago

China doesn't want a deal. They only want to continue to exploit the US. So the US is gradually decoupling from them.

Consultant32452 7y ago
They're literally killing us by the tens of thousands every year. It seems like every week there's some story about a Chinese product with Mercury or other poisons. Recently we caught them smuggling enough fentanyl through our southern border to kill a billion people. I agree, the only "deal" China will accept is a total capitulation of the United States, so there will be no deal.
- vkou 7y ago
  I like how you manage to assign blame for the actions of a few drug dealers to an entire country.
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    There's basically one company making all this fentanyl. We know where it is, we know where the CEO lives. He's walking around free and in the open in China.
    - vkou 7y ago
      You are wrong to blame an entire country for our addiction to fentanyl. The facts are: 1. Fentanyl has legitimate pharmaceutical uses. 2. There are many, many, many legal manufacturers of Fentanyl, across the world, including Bayer, Johnson&Johnson, Meiji Seika Pharma (Japan), and yes, Chinese manufacturers. Some legal fentanyl ends up getting diverted into illegal channels. 3. There are also many, many, many illegal manufacturers of Fentanyl, again, across the world. 4. The reason for why China has had an outsized share of illegal fentanyl production is that for many years, it (and its derivatives and precursors) has not been a controlled substance. 5. Fentanyl is now a controlled substance in China, and it, its precursors, and its derivatives have been controlled substances since May 2019.
      - Consultant32452 7y ago
        And yet in August we seized a Chinese shipment of fentanyl large enough to kill an entire state's worth of people. When China actually does something beyond lip service, then I'll believe you. Let's not forget, every major industry in China is controlled by the party. Whether it was a controlled substance in China is irrelevant to whether or not they're literally killing us by the tens of thousands a year. https://www.foxnews.com/media/opioid-crisis-fentanyl-china-mexico-florida https://www.foxnews.com/media/opioid-crisis-fentanyl-china-m...
DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
"Exploit the US" by providing cheap labor to US firms? It's scary to see jingoistic rhetoric spreading on HN. China is the new enemy du jour, and lots of people here seem to be itching for a conflict.
- ep103 7y ago
  The tables are fundamentally imbalanced now, I see nothing wrong with the US attempting to finally start addressing the issue. The fact that US companies have been exploiting that imbalance to pursue cheap labor is irrelevant to the conversation.