7 ms·

> If that works out well, then, you are invited to do a trial, where you work alongside an Automatic team for a period of 1-3 months for ~10 hours per week. Thi

> If that works out well, then, you are invited to do a trial, where you work alongside an Automatic team for a period of 1-3 months for ~10 hours per week. This trial is paid with 25 Dollars per hour. $25/hour for a professional software developer is kind of insulting. Particularly so if Automattic is looking the same tier of talent as the top tech companies.

hayksaakian 7y ago
Keep in mind that Automattic is a remote company. Maybe $25 per hour won't attract local talent from silicon valley, but there's a huge global market of talented engineers that would happily apply to work remote at a company like Automattic.
- impatientduck 7y ago
  I guess, but then how are developers in first world countries supposed to pay the rent? If a company wants to source all their developers from third world countries maybe they shouldn't be allowed to list their stock in first world exchanges. Seems fair, no?
  - xyzzyz 7y ago
    They can take some other job which will presumably pay more? Nobody's forcing them to work for $25/hour.
    - impatientduck 7y ago
      Except if we outsource all the jobs...Likewise, no one would be forcing Automattic to list on a first world exchange - there are many other ones where they could be free to float their stock. How come all's fair for labor, but not for capital?
      - cutler 7y ago
        Exactly. In the long game remote = outsourcing = race to the bottom. Marx saw it coming a long time ago.
  - dimitar 7y ago
    Not at all - both sides benefit from trade. And also 3rd world investors buy a big part of that stock (including a part of my savings). AFAIK developers in the first world still get better than the average salaries.
  - fsloth 7y ago
    In Finland 25$ per hour would be way higher than average wage. Finland is very much a first world country.
  - RobertKerans 7y ago
    Looking at the current exchange rates, I don't earn a huge amount more than this, and I have a mortgage, support my partner and child financially, and live very comfortably in a city in a first world country. Admittedly one with non-insane healthcare, and not in a capital city/city where house prices are sky high, but still.
- MuffinFlavored 7y ago
  I don't know any developer who is excited to work for less than $40k/yr on the absolute lowest, closer to $60k/yr. Let me do the math.. Oh wow, I didn't realize that $60k/yr is $28/hr. I guess this does make sense after all...
  - Cerium 7y ago
    At 40 hours per week, 50 weeks per year, hourly times 2 is yearly in kilobucks. Eg: $10/hr is 20k/year.
    - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
      For anybody else: $10/hr = $20k/yr $20/hr = $40k/yr $30/hr = $60k/yr $40/hr = $80k/yr $50/hr = $100k/yr $60/hr = $120k/yr $70/hr = $140k/yr $80/hr = $160k/yr $90/hr = $180k/yr $100/hr = $200k/yr $110/hr = $220k/yr $120/hr = $240k/yr $130/hr = $260k/yr $140/hr = $280k/yr $150/hr = $300k/yr $160/hr = $320k/yr $170/hr = $340k/yr $180/hr = $360k/yr $190/hr = $390k/yr $200/hr = $400k/yr
      - lightwin 7y ago
        Basically, there are about 2000 working hours in a year, so multiply the hourly rate to 2000. :)
  - arczyx 7y ago
    >I don't know any developer who is excited to work for less than $40k/yr on the absolute lowest In my country, $40k/year is a super high salary, even the average senior developer wouldn't make that much.
    - cutler 7y ago
      This can be a problem with remote working. It's fine if you live where accommodation is cheap but if you're earning the same money living in a metropolis it doesn't add up.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
notzuck 7y ago
"To that end, as we reviewed our hiring process, we realized that the demographics of people we attract to apply are not inline with the demographics of the people we hope to hire." If that's there attitude then fuck them. You can guess which demographic they are talking about. https://cate.blog/2019/05/15/addressing-hiring-gaps-through-user-research/ https://cate.blog/2019/05/15/addressing-hiring-gaps-through-...
- dwoozle 7y ago
  Having a demographic you “hope to hire” should be flatly illegal.
  - notzuck 7y ago
    Last time I posted this I received hate in response. Guess I'm not woke enough,
- vonseel 7y ago
  Am I understanding correctly from the last paragraph that they are looking for women and trans/non-traditional gender or sexual orienting folk?
lacampbell 7y ago
To an American sure. I know people in NZ paid less than that.
fouc 7y ago
I think that PHP developers tend to get a lower hourly rate due to the larger supply of PHP developers. I also suspect that PHP development has a reputation for being a lower tier of quality, perhaps unfairly, and that can also push the price down.
- kevindong 7y ago
  Facebook would be the major counterexample for your hypothesis.
fsloth 7y ago
Actually here in Finland that's an ok rate for employeed professional software engineers, if the employer pays the pension fund charges etc mandated stuff.I imagine it's even better offer for lower income countries with top talent (Romania etc).
achow 7y ago
IMHO, this is much better than giving an exercise for test. They are talking about 10 hours per week. So $1000 for four weekends (while keeping your existing job) is quite attractive for anyone trying to get entry into tech space. I would imagine many (not from 'traditional' academic background, or fresh out of some unknown college, etc.) would do this for free for a decent shot at getting hired in a well known tech company.
- kevindong 7y ago
  For entry level (probably for interns, maybe for new grads), it makes some sense. But asking any American developer with >= 1 year of experience to do this would be kind of crazy.

hayksaakian 7y ago

Keep in mind that Automattic is a remote company. Maybe $25 per hour won't attract local talent from silicon valley, but there's a huge global market of talented engineers that would happily apply to work remote at a company like Automattic.

impatientduck 7y ago
I guess, but then how are developers in first world countries supposed to pay the rent? If a company wants to source all their developers from third world countries maybe they shouldn't be allowed to list their stock in first world exchanges. Seems fair, no?
- xyzzyz 7y ago
  They can take some other job which will presumably pay more? Nobody's forcing them to work for $25/hour.
  - impatientduck 7y ago
    Except if we outsource all the jobs...Likewise, no one would be forcing Automattic to list on a first world exchange - there are many other ones where they could be free to float their stock. How come all's fair for labor, but not for capital?
    - cutler 7y ago
      Exactly. In the long game remote = outsourcing = race to the bottom. Marx saw it coming a long time ago.
- dimitar 7y ago
  Not at all - both sides benefit from trade. And also 3rd world investors buy a big part of that stock (including a part of my savings). AFAIK developers in the first world still get better than the average salaries.
- fsloth 7y ago
  In Finland 25$ per hour would be way higher than average wage. Finland is very much a first world country.
- RobertKerans 7y ago
  Looking at the current exchange rates, I don't earn a huge amount more than this, and I have a mortgage, support my partner and child financially, and live very comfortably in a city in a first world country. Admittedly one with non-insane healthcare, and not in a capital city/city where house prices are sky high, but still.
MuffinFlavored 7y ago
I don't know any developer who is excited to work for less than $40k/yr on the absolute lowest, closer to $60k/yr. Let me do the math.. Oh wow, I didn't realize that $60k/yr is $28/hr. I guess this does make sense after all...
- Cerium 7y ago
  At 40 hours per week, 50 weeks per year, hourly times 2 is yearly in kilobucks. Eg: $10/hr is 20k/year.
  - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
    For anybody else: $10/hr = $20k/yr $20/hr = $40k/yr $30/hr = $60k/yr $40/hr = $80k/yr $50/hr = $100k/yr $60/hr = $120k/yr $70/hr = $140k/yr $80/hr = $160k/yr $90/hr = $180k/yr $100/hr = $200k/yr $110/hr = $220k/yr $120/hr = $240k/yr $130/hr = $260k/yr $140/hr = $280k/yr $150/hr = $300k/yr $160/hr = $320k/yr $170/hr = $340k/yr $180/hr = $360k/yr $190/hr = $390k/yr $200/hr = $400k/yr
    - lightwin 7y ago
      Basically, there are about 2000 working hours in a year, so multiply the hourly rate to 2000. :)
- arczyx 7y ago
  >I don't know any developer who is excited to work for less than $40k/yr on the absolute lowest In my country, $40k/year is a super high salary, even the average senior developer wouldn't make that much.
  - cutler 7y ago
    This can be a problem with remote working. It's fine if you live where accommodation is cheap but if you're earning the same money living in a metropolis it doesn't add up.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

notzuck 7y ago

"To that end, as we reviewed our hiring process, we realized that the demographics of people we attract to apply are not inline with the demographics of the people we hope to hire." If that's there attitude then fuck them. You can guess which demographic they are talking about. https://cate.blog/2019/05/15/addressing-hiring-gaps-through-user-research/ https://cate.blog/2019/05/15/addressing-hiring-gaps-through-...

dwoozle 7y ago
Having a demographic you “hope to hire” should be flatly illegal.
- notzuck 7y ago
  Last time I posted this I received hate in response. Guess I'm not woke enough,
vonseel 7y ago
Am I understanding correctly from the last paragraph that they are looking for women and trans/non-traditional gender or sexual orienting folk?

lacampbell 7y ago

To an American sure. I know people in NZ paid less than that.

fouc 7y ago

I think that PHP developers tend to get a lower hourly rate due to the larger supply of PHP developers. I also suspect that PHP development has a reputation for being a lower tier of quality, perhaps unfairly, and that can also push the price down.

kevindong 7y ago
Facebook would be the major counterexample for your hypothesis.

fsloth 7y ago

Actually here in Finland that's an ok rate for employeed professional software engineers, if the employer pays the pension fund charges etc mandated stuff.I imagine it's even better offer for lower income countries with top talent (Romania etc).

achow 7y ago

IMHO, this is much better than giving an exercise for test. They are talking about 10 hours per week. So $1000 for four weekends (while keeping your existing job) is quite attractive for anyone trying to get entry into tech space. I would imagine many (not from 'traditional' academic background, or fresh out of some unknown college, etc.) would do this for free for a decent shot at getting hired in a well known tech company.

kevindong 7y ago
For entry level (probably for interns, maybe for new grads), it makes some sense. But asking any American developer with >= 1 year of experience to do this would be kind of crazy.