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At least one state (Vermont) does allow people behind bars. For the rest of them, prison populations are another form of concentrating and diluting power: pris
by Frondo 7y ago
At least one state (Vermont) does allow people behind bars.
For the rest of them, prison populations are another form of concentrating and diluting power: prisoners are counted toward district population, but have no voting power.
I'm in the camp that thinks everyone should have the right to vote, prisoners included. Voting is a fundamental component of citizenship, and being imprisoned shouldn't take that way as a matter a principle, nor should a citizen be disenfranchised after their release (as is also common, especially in the states that enacted all these laws in the Jim Crow south era).
Especially if we want former prisoners to play a more positive role in society after their release, stripping them of a right of citizenship, possibly indefinitely, seems like a bad way to do it.
- crooked-v 7y agoA simple thought experiment that can also help people reevaluate their views on this kind of thing: Imagine if [thing you like] was illegal, punishable as a minor felony with a year in jail and the subsequent loss of voting rights. You know that 60% of the population supports [thing you like] and would like to have it legalized, but because a substantial chunk of this population has been or will be punished this way over their lifetimes, support of [thing you like] only gets a minority of the vote. The 40% of the population that opposes [thing you like] uses this to claim that most people oppose [thing you like] and want it to remain illegal.
- SamReidHughes 7y agoSo only people that can express some self-restraint get to vote? Sounds like a good idea.
- crooked-v 7y agoOr people rich enough to get off scot-free—because you know that people in Hollywood and assorted politicians also do [thing you like], sometimes quite openly, and never seem to actually get punished for it.
- kls 7y agoThat is the whole issue with the criminalization of drug consumption it creates all kind of societal issues and it screws up other areas that at one time where and still should be reasonable. It get compounded with laws like the 3 strike rule where you get hit with 3 small non-violent offenses and then they can really jack up the charges and get you on a felony. I am all for true felons loosing their right to vote. I don't want people that have run ponzi schemes, violent high volume drug dealers or pedophiles to have the right to participate in the society I live in. I think it is criminal that some meth head that gets slapped with a felony for having a little too much on them goes to prison, gets out, turns around their life and now cannot participate fully in society due to poor laws.
- crooked-v 7y agoI would personally prefer voting remain unconditionally open to everyone, because treating it that way avoids future societal repression over [insert moral panic over reasonably harmless subject here] and because the total number of the kind of people you cite are a rounding error compared to overall voter turnout totals.
- ryanobjc 7y agoWell said. I am amused that too many people on HN take the thinnest logical wedge of situations like this and say "see! It make sense!" and essentially ignore the effective outcome. It's a very "computery" thought process - compilers are kind of like this. But when deployed in defense of the undefendable, it really does disservice to "our" community. One that I do not feel proud of being part of anymore.
- Frondo 7y agoI think a lot of people also don't make a distinction between punitive and rehabilitative justice. Do I want to punish people? No, the threat of punishment seldom deters people (there's even that saying, it's better to ask forgiveness than request permission). I don't care about punishing people, I care about having a better society. Helping people who've done wrong fix their mistakes and be better citizens is what I care about. If punishment did that, then sure, let's do it, but it doesn't. People need to get past their need for vengeance, whether dressed up as justice or laid bare.