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I don't know about the rest of it, but gerrymandering definitely needs to go. Getting rid of gerrymandering is nothing but a "win" for every American voter rega

I don't know about the rest of it, but gerrymandering definitely needs to go. Getting rid of gerrymandering is nothing but a "win" for every American voter regardless of political affiliation.

mehrdadn 7y ago
I don't know how it will ever go away with the Supreme Court ruling the way it did.
- Frondo 7y ago
  At the state level, like North Carolina is doing now. A federal ruling would've been nice, but if it must happen in statehouses, then that is where voting rights activists must concentrate their efforts.
  - rtkwe 7y ago
    Yeah it's what'll have to happen now absent a plan like Warren's at the federal level [0] (though even this only deals with federal elections). The issue is the same people you have to convince to stop gerrymandering are the people currently doing it to protect their own electoral prospects! [0] https://medium.com/@teamwarren/my-plan-to-strengthen-our-democracy-6867ec1bcd3c https://medium.com/@teamwarren/my-plan-to-strengthen-our-dem... edit: It only directly deals with federal elections. She does have plans to get states to follow along but there's not as much power to directly force them.
gizmo385 7y ago
An issue for proposals that seek to ban gerrymandering is that it is quite difficult to quantify and measure how "gerrymandered" a particular district is, since it all depends on what your goal is. Are you trying to do blind population representation? Are you trying to "groups" of people (for some definition of "group"), etc. FiveThirtyEight did a good podcast series on gerrymandering that discusses a lot of these problems (and potential solutions to them): https://fivethirtyeight.com/tag/the-gerrymandering-project/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/tag/the-gerrymandering-project/
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  You'll get edge cases, but in a lot of gerrymandering situations it's clear enough even if it can't be perfectly quantified. We've got SCOTUS precedent for this sort of thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it
  - rtkwe 7y ago
    SCOTUS recently said partisan gerrymanders were non-justiciable which as far as I can tell basically shuts the book on it until the balance on the court changes.
    - lalaithion 7y ago
      If congress passes a law that says "Partisan gerrymandering is illegal, the courts can determine if a district is gerrymandered", then that would be enough to make partisan gerrymanders justiciable.
      - sdenton4 7y ago
        Not exactly. There's still state-by-state work happening on this front, which can still make a big difference. And there's hope: Voting fairness is something that the republican voters seem to respond to, even as their representatives seek to claw it back, as the case in Florida nicely illustrates.
- esarbe 7y ago
  Relevant paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1801.02064.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1801.02064.pdf
- henrikschroder 7y ago
  Gerrymandering is only possible in first-past-the-post systems, if you have several mandates per district, the problem goes away completely. Another nice side-effect is that proportional representation breaks the two-party system.
rtkwe 7y ago
Voter ID laws and Poll closures both target specific voting blocs with strong party affiliations intentionally and (often) explicitly. Both make it harder to vote. In a perfect world ID laws could be ok but it would require a huge project to ensure every legal voter had some form of ID, eg. going door to door to ensure people who have trouble getting to out of the way DMV locations don't get left out and assistance with gathering any required documents, so far none of them have included this crucial step. It doesn't help that the number of voter fraud incidents is vanishingly small so the supposed issue voter ID laws are supposed to be addressing is a lie.
- arkh 7y ago
  Maybe people could how it's done in other countries. Here in France: when I move to a new city I go register with an ID. Then before elections I receive a voting card. Also: elections are on Sunday so most working people can go vote if they want to.
  - rtkwe 7y ago
    I'm not 100% clear on what you mean, sounds like automatic voter registration, ie when you go to the DMV to get your license/ID you're automatically registered to vote? That would help a lot and I'd love to see it but it only deals with one side and doesn't solve the issue of people who are legally able to vote but don't have a current ID. I'd also love to see election day moved to a Sunday or be made a federal holiday with some requirement that everyone be given sufficient (potentially paid?) time to vote.
    - taborj 7y ago
      Oregon has a "motor voter" act, where you are automatically registered to vote if you have a driver's license (and are of age). We also do vote by mail, so it doesn't matter when the election day is. Just send in (or drop off) your ballot before voting closes.
    - arkh 7y ago
      > when you go to the DMV to get your license/ID you're automatically registered to vote? No. First thing to understand is you are required to have a valid ID (ID card, passport or driver's license) so almost everyone has at least an ID card (even children). You have to go register to be able to vote in a city. You don't have to change when you move but it is easier to vote where you live instead of going back to where you lived 3 years ago.

I don't know about the rest of it, but gerrymandering definitely needs to go. Getting rid of gerrymandering is nothing but a "win" for every American voter regardless of political affiliation.

mehrdadn 7y ago

I don't know how it will ever go away with the Supreme Court ruling the way it did.

Frondo 7y ago
At the state level, like North Carolina is doing now. A federal ruling would've been nice, but if it must happen in statehouses, then that is where voting rights activists must concentrate their efforts.
- rtkwe 7y ago
  Yeah it's what'll have to happen now absent a plan like Warren's at the federal level [0] (though even this only deals with federal elections). The issue is the same people you have to convince to stop gerrymandering are the people currently doing it to protect their own electoral prospects! [0] https://medium.com/@teamwarren/my-plan-to-strengthen-our-democracy-6867ec1bcd3c https://medium.com/@teamwarren/my-plan-to-strengthen-our-dem... edit: It only directly deals with federal elections. She does have plans to get states to follow along but there's not as much power to directly force them.

gizmo385 7y ago

An issue for proposals that seek to ban gerrymandering is that it is quite difficult to quantify and measure how "gerrymandered" a particular district is, since it all depends on what your goal is. Are you trying to do blind population representation? Are you trying to "groups" of people (for some definition of "group"), etc. FiveThirtyEight did a good podcast series on gerrymandering that discusses a lot of these problems (and potential solutions to them): https://fivethirtyeight.com/tag/the-gerrymandering-project/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/tag/the-gerrymandering-project/

ceejayoz 7y ago
You'll get edge cases, but in a lot of gerrymandering situations it's clear enough even if it can't be perfectly quantified. We've got SCOTUS precedent for this sort of thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it
- rtkwe 7y ago
  SCOTUS recently said partisan gerrymanders were non-justiciable which as far as I can tell basically shuts the book on it until the balance on the court changes.
  - lalaithion 7y ago
    If congress passes a law that says "Partisan gerrymandering is illegal, the courts can determine if a district is gerrymandered", then that would be enough to make partisan gerrymanders justiciable.
    - sdenton4 7y ago
      Not exactly. There's still state-by-state work happening on this front, which can still make a big difference. And there's hope: Voting fairness is something that the republican voters seem to respond to, even as their representatives seek to claw it back, as the case in Florida nicely illustrates.
esarbe 7y ago
Relevant paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1801.02064.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1801.02064.pdf
henrikschroder 7y ago
Gerrymandering is only possible in first-past-the-post systems, if you have several mandates per district, the problem goes away completely. Another nice side-effect is that proportional representation breaks the two-party system.

rtkwe 7y ago

Voter ID laws and Poll closures both target specific voting blocs with strong party affiliations intentionally and (often) explicitly. Both make it harder to vote. In a perfect world ID laws could be ok but it would require a huge project to ensure every legal voter had some form of ID, eg. going door to door to ensure people who have trouble getting to out of the way DMV locations don't get left out and assistance with gathering any required documents, so far none of them have included this crucial step. It doesn't help that the number of voter fraud incidents is vanishingly small so the supposed issue voter ID laws are supposed to be addressing is a lie.

arkh 7y ago
Maybe people could how it's done in other countries. Here in France: when I move to a new city I go register with an ID. Then before elections I receive a voting card. Also: elections are on Sunday so most working people can go vote if they want to.
- rtkwe 7y ago
  I'm not 100% clear on what you mean, sounds like automatic voter registration, ie when you go to the DMV to get your license/ID you're automatically registered to vote? That would help a lot and I'd love to see it but it only deals with one side and doesn't solve the issue of people who are legally able to vote but don't have a current ID. I'd also love to see election day moved to a Sunday or be made a federal holiday with some requirement that everyone be given sufficient (potentially paid?) time to vote.
  - taborj 7y ago
    Oregon has a "motor voter" act, where you are automatically registered to vote if you have a driver's license (and are of age). We also do vote by mail, so it doesn't matter when the election day is. Just send in (or drop off) your ballot before voting closes.
  - arkh 7y ago
    > when you go to the DMV to get your license/ID you're automatically registered to vote? No. First thing to understand is you are required to have a valid ID (ID card, passport or driver's license) so almost everyone has at least an ID card (even children). You have to go register to be able to vote in a city. You don't have to change when you move but it is easier to vote where you live instead of going back to where you lived 3 years ago.