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> Taiwan (labor is more expensive, but they could maybe rely on automation more) A few years ago, I was surprised to learn that Taiwan actually has low-cost bu

by wenc 7y ago

> Taiwan (labor is more expensive, but they could maybe rely on automation more) A few years ago, I was surprised to learn that Taiwan actually has low-cost but high-end (university-educated) labor. Ph.D. graduates abound. It is an advanced economy yet wages are surprisingly low due to its export-focused strategy and various other structural causes. Cost of living in Taiwan also appears to be pretty low, which makes low wages bearable. It is a low-growth economy and it doesn't have the glitziness of Hong Kong, but everything feels 1st world (clean, technically advanced, efficient) so I'm not sure how the balance sheet there actually works out. (that said, I understand many recent TW graduates tend to seek their fortunes in mainland China, where the pay is better.)

dragontamer 7y ago
> A few years ago, I was surprised to learn that Taiwan actually has low-cost but high-end (university-educated) labor. Ph.D. graduates abound. Considering that TSMC is the only 7nm fab lab in large scale operation, I'm not surprised. TSMC, and Taiwan, have always been on the cutting edge, and have even out-competed the US recently (Intel getting stuck at 12nm, GloFo giving up the race entirely). The USA needs to give a good, long, look at what Taiwan is doing and needs to wonder how we lost our chip supremacy to them. I hold no malice against them... they just did it better than we did. Fair and square. #2 in the race btw, is probably going to be Samsung (South Korea). Intel is "almost done" with 10nm (which should be competitive vs Samsung/TSMC 7nm), but they're definitely lagging behind.
- rossdavidh 7y ago
  Having worked in the semiconductor industry from 1989-2004, I can speak to this a little. TSMC basically invented the model of manufacturing semiconductors for design shops, at scale. They could economically turn out small-scale runs at cutting-edge geometries, and were willing and able to work with small design shops (many in the U.S.) to do it. It was described at the time as "out-sourcing your design and sales". Companies that could not get behemoths like Intel or National Semiconductor or T.I. or the like to manufacture for them, who also couldn't afford to build and run a modern semiconductor fab, could get competitive manufacturing of their designs done. It was a brilliant strategy, and it allowed them to be less dependent on any one design working/selling well, since they had many different companies competing to fill their factories for them.
Jommi 7y ago
It's actually quite a constant problem I hear from friends in Taiwan. This low pay even in jobs that require uni-educ really pushes them to seek employment elsewhere. Now what nearby place needs highly skilled labor in exactly the areas Taiwan is very proficient at? Shenzhen is just around the corner. Of course there is a still a huge cultural disparity of going to mainland china. But money is a strong motivator to change your values.
wenc 7y ago
Some additional thoughts about why Taiwan has low wages: https://www.quora.com/Why-has-salary-growth-stagnated-in-Taiwan-despite-its-economic-success https://www.quora.com/Why-has-salary-growth-stagnated-in-Tai...

by wenc 7y ago

dragontamer 7y ago

> A few years ago, I was surprised to learn that Taiwan actually has low-cost but high-end (university-educated) labor. Ph.D. graduates abound. Considering that TSMC is the only 7nm fab lab in large scale operation, I'm not surprised. TSMC, and Taiwan, have always been on the cutting edge, and have even out-competed the US recently (Intel getting stuck at 12nm, GloFo giving up the race entirely). The USA needs to give a good, long, look at what Taiwan is doing and needs to wonder how we lost our chip supremacy to them. I hold no malice against them... they just did it better than we did. Fair and square. #2 in the race btw, is probably going to be Samsung (South Korea). Intel is "almost done" with 10nm (which should be competitive vs Samsung/TSMC 7nm), but they're definitely lagging behind.

rossdavidh 7y ago
Having worked in the semiconductor industry from 1989-2004, I can speak to this a little. TSMC basically invented the model of manufacturing semiconductors for design shops, at scale. They could economically turn out small-scale runs at cutting-edge geometries, and were willing and able to work with small design shops (many in the U.S.) to do it. It was described at the time as "out-sourcing your design and sales". Companies that could not get behemoths like Intel or National Semiconductor or T.I. or the like to manufacture for them, who also couldn't afford to build and run a modern semiconductor fab, could get competitive manufacturing of their designs done. It was a brilliant strategy, and it allowed them to be less dependent on any one design working/selling well, since they had many different companies competing to fill their factories for them.

Jommi 7y ago

It's actually quite a constant problem I hear from friends in Taiwan. This low pay even in jobs that require uni-educ really pushes them to seek employment elsewhere. Now what nearby place needs highly skilled labor in exactly the areas Taiwan is very proficient at? Shenzhen is just around the corner. Of course there is a still a huge cultural disparity of going to mainland china. But money is a strong motivator to change your values.

wenc 7y ago

Some additional thoughts about why Taiwan has low wages: https://www.quora.com/Why-has-salary-growth-stagnated-in-Taiwan-despite-its-economic-success https://www.quora.com/Why-has-salary-growth-stagnated-in-Tai...