7 ms·
This is such a ridiculous framing, so in your opinion by this logic, if Xi was democratically elected by a free and fair election, and then proceeded to ban mem
by threwawasy1228 7y ago
This is such a ridiculous framing, so in your opinion by this logic, if Xi was democratically elected by a free and fair election, and then proceeded to ban memes via a legislative branch that would be perfectly fine? I think what the UK is doing is equally shameful. This kind of "its ok when the west does it" type of narrative is why when I talk to Chinese students about censorship issues they can consistently point to Western censorship of topics with smugness.
"Oh but those things we ban here are anti-PC, so we are offended by them", sounds eerily similar to, "Oh but those things we ban here are anti-CCP, so we are offended by them".
- jdm2212 7y agoThere are two separate issues with China banning memes: 1. it's symptomatic of Xi's government being able to do anything it wants to (including killing people to harvest their organs) without any checks and balances 2. it violates our ideal of freedom of speech One of those is a far more serious problem than the other. A democratic society can fix laws that don't live up to its ideals. A lawless, autocratic society cannot.
- jimclegg 7y ago>A democratic society can fix laws that don't live up to its ideals. A lawless, autocratic society cannot. China has mechanisms to change laws but they have to be routed through the proper channels. From what I understand, individuals can complain all they want, as long as they don't organize outside of these designated channels. This definitely pisses off the % of western governments that use "grassroots" movements as an attack vector to undermine unfavorable foreign governments.
- stickfigure 7y ago"Individuals can complain all they want, as long as it is in their own homes, with no more than two individuals present, and they must be blood-related."
- jdm2212 7y agoThe only effective way to change laws is to organize. "you can change laws, but you can't organize to do so" is in effect saying you cannot change the laws. And that's by design -- China is an autocracy.
- blaser-waffle 7y agoTo paraphrase Yakov Smirnoff: "USA and Soviet Union have same freedom. In USA I can I can drive to White House and complain about Reagan; in Soviet Russia I can also drive to Kremlin and complain about Reagan."
- SomeOldThrow 7y agoComplaining about Reagan didn’t do much to protect us anyway, we gave our power away willingly.
- munk-a 7y agoThe US is hardly perfect... 1. The US has long operated offshore prisons where human rights are routinely abused (though harvesting organs is never a thing I've heard of happening in them) 2. The US routinely silences comedians when they're reported to say something impolite or against the grain - remember Kathy Griffin?
- disease 7y agoWhat is your source on the United States government taking action against Kathy Griffin?
- munk-a 7y agoThe US Government publicly shamed her over her post - https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869874798087819264 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/86987479808781926... this lead to hardships for her[1] that I believe aren't debated? As per statements by the white house[2] and other branches[3] that twitter account is an official channel of US Government policy, I think this is reasonable and generally accepted[4]. 1. https://ew.com/news/2017/06/02/kathy-griffin-donald-trump-broke-me/ https://ew.com/news/2017/06/02/kathy-griffin-donald-trump-br... 2. https://time.com/4808270/sean-spicer-donald-trump-twitter-statements/ https://time.com/4808270/sean-spicer-donald-trump-twitter-st... 3. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/14/doj-donald-trump-tweets-are-official-statements-of/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/14/doj-donald-... 4. https://www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccaheilweil1/2017/07/11/trump-violates-first-amendment-with-every-twitter-user-he-blocks-lawsuit-contends/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccaheilweil1/2017/07/11/tru...
- PKop 7y agoBoth points are perfectly encapsulated in UK hate speech laws. They subvert free speech with the heckler's veto, and there's nothing anyone can do about them, "democratic" or not.
- jdm2212 7y agoPeople in the UK can vote out the government and change the laws that way. People in China can't.
- gamblor956 7y agoThis is such a ridiculous framing, so in your opinion by this logic, if Xi was democratically elected by a free and fair election, and then proceeded to ban memes via a legislative branch that would be perfectly fine? You've just described India under Modi...