3 ms·

I think Western memory about the Opium Wars is a lot weaker than China's. They have a moral defense against any accusation of economic imperialism. Indeed, comm

I think Western memory about the Opium Wars is a lot weaker than China's. They have a moral defense against any accusation of economic imperialism. Indeed, communism would have never taken hold if the British hadn't done such devastating harm.

jcranmer 7y ago
What you're arguing is that, since China was previously a victim, China is incapable of being imperial. That's no comfort to countries which are staring down a gauntlet of Western imperialism being replaced with Chinese imperialism.
- ben_jones 7y ago
  An enemy (eastern imperialism) of your enemy (western imperialism) is your friend. China was a victim in the Opium wars and then again to Japan in the 1930s and 1940s. This is all important context that needs to be considered. To be clear I don't support China or Eastern imperialism in (significantly) Africa, the ME, or the US. But if you want to fight it you have to be informed, history repeats itself.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    No. As the web comic Schlock Mercenary says in one of its maxims, "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more; no less."
  - reilly3000 7y ago
    Also to be clear I don't support China's activities or posture around the world. I think they are building an empire, and its execution and culture are antithetical to western values. I'm just saying that the West cannot claim a moral high ground in how we've treated China, and in the US, Chinese immigrants.
    - ben_jones 7y ago
      Oh I absolutely agree, there is also a rich irony in the United States condemning financial imperialism when we literally wrote the entire playbook for it in the 20th century.
avocado4 7y ago
There's no legitimacy to the argument for using events from 150 years ago as a justification for repeating the same crimes against humanity over again today. By this logic, should Israel have a moral right to put half of German population into gas chambers today because of Hitler?

jcranmer 7y ago

What you're arguing is that, since China was previously a victim, China is incapable of being imperial. That's no comfort to countries which are staring down a gauntlet of Western imperialism being replaced with Chinese imperialism.

ben_jones 7y ago
An enemy (eastern imperialism) of your enemy (western imperialism) is your friend. China was a victim in the Opium wars and then again to Japan in the 1930s and 1940s. This is all important context that needs to be considered. To be clear I don't support China or Eastern imperialism in (significantly) Africa, the ME, or the US. But if you want to fight it you have to be informed, history repeats itself.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  No. As the web comic Schlock Mercenary says in one of its maxims, "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more; no less."
- reilly3000 7y ago
  Also to be clear I don't support China's activities or posture around the world. I think they are building an empire, and its execution and culture are antithetical to western values. I'm just saying that the West cannot claim a moral high ground in how we've treated China, and in the US, Chinese immigrants.
  - ben_jones 7y ago
    Oh I absolutely agree, there is also a rich irony in the United States condemning financial imperialism when we literally wrote the entire playbook for it in the 20th century.

avocado4 7y ago

There's no legitimacy to the argument for using events from 150 years ago as a justification for repeating the same crimes against humanity over again today. By this logic, should Israel have a moral right to put half of German population into gas chambers today because of Hitler?