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I remember when news used to tell you about things that did happen instead of things that might happen. Until a company actually does this, this is just clickb

by imgabe 7y ago

I remember when news used to tell you about things that did happen instead of things that might happen. Until a company actually does this, this is just clickbait speculation.

krilly 7y ago
Well, no. All this recent controversy stems from the recent NBA incident.
smsm42 7y ago
That's like saying "until US president is elected, talking about elections is a clickbait speculation". Policies are born out of speculation about the future, and public speculation (aka debate) about what is going to happen can influence them. We see evidence (NBA, Blizzard, Apple, Mariott, Gap, etc.) of US companies prostrating themselves before Chinese censorship. It is reasonable to discuss this phenomena and speculate what policy change it may bring in.
- imgabe 7y ago
  Are you proposing that a majority of election coverage is not clickbait speculation? Have you actually watched any election coverage? There is plenty of real coverage that takes place, but it doesn't fill a 24-hour news cycle. It consists of things like direct quotes of what candidates actually said and things they actually did. The rest of it is filled with guesses about hypothetical policies they might adopt and what horrible/wonderful things might occur if they do get adopted. In other words, clickbait speculation.
  - smsm42 7y ago
    There's a difference between "a lot of coverage of X is clickbait" and "any coverage of X is clickbait because X has not happened yet". The former is likely true, the latter is obviously false.
    - imgabe 7y ago
      There is a difference between "things that did happen concerning a thing that is going to happen" and "hypothetical things that may or may not happen". This coverage is about US employers en masse firing employees unless they censor themselves on social media. This is not a thing that has happened. This is not coverage about the two specific incidents that actually occurred. It is speculation. The person quoted in the article is from the American Enterprise Institute, which is a think tank. This is not someone in charge of setting policy at any US company. This is someone sitting on the sidelines and making guesses.
      - smsm42 7y ago
        > This is not a thing that has happened. Neither have US elections in 2020. Both are likely to happen if current tendencies keep in the future, which makes it sensible to discuss what would happen then. We see people fired or under threat of firing for social media posts all the time. Is it cause for concern for everybody right now? No, not yet. Does it happen frequently enough that it might become an issue in the future? IMO, yes, absolutely. > This is someone sitting on the sidelines and making guesses. These are not just abstract guesses made out of nothing on a whim. Those are educated guesses made following current trends - as much as speaking about who would win 2020 US elections. In both cases, nobody knows the answer until it happens. In both cases, it still makes sense to talk about it because it is important, it might happen, and talking about it now might prevent undesirable result in the future.
r00fus 7y ago
Does Blizzard's muzzling/suspension of a Hearthstone tournament player count? Sure, the player isn't an employee, but essentially earns money by playing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21190265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21190265
- yifanl 7y ago
  I think a caster was canned as well, which I'd definitely qualify as an employee.
- imgabe 7y ago
  Not really. Blizzard cites a specific rule that all the tournament players agree to that allows them to do that. Most employees don't have any such agreement with their employer. Even so, with at-will employment, employees have always been subject to being fired for saying something controversial on social media, so this is nothing new.
  - unionpivo 7y ago
    I mean there will always be legal excuse. Corporations hr departments have firing down to a fine art.
- SamReidHughes 7y ago
  Really, that's different. It's perfectly reasonable to prohibit your tournament streams from being used as a medium for activism.
ben_jones 7y ago
The NBA recently [1] condemned an employee's post on Twitter in support of the Hong Kong protesters - shortly after the tweet was deleted and an apology was issued by the employee. While there is not proof of coercion it is strongly implied. Leaks [2] also indicated that the employee's immediate termination was strongly considered. SIGNIFICANT EDIT: it seems the NBA has walked back and is now supporting the employee in question, as a consequence China has banned all NBA broadcasts in the country. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21176976 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21176976 [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/deawtd/gonzalez_as_a_consequence_league_sources_told_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/deawtd/gonzalez_as_a_c... [3]: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/dewiuy/yu_fu_cctv_announced_that_they_will_suspend_all/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/dewiuy/yu_fu_cctv_anno...

by imgabe 7y ago

I remember when news used to tell you about things that did happen instead of things that might happen. Until a company actually does this, this is just clickbait speculation.

krilly 7y ago

Well, no. All this recent controversy stems from the recent NBA incident.

smsm42 7y ago

That's like saying "until US president is elected, talking about elections is a clickbait speculation". Policies are born out of speculation about the future, and public speculation (aka debate) about what is going to happen can influence them. We see evidence (NBA, Blizzard, Apple, Mariott, Gap, etc.) of US companies prostrating themselves before Chinese censorship. It is reasonable to discuss this phenomena and speculate what policy change it may bring in.

imgabe 7y ago
Are you proposing that a majority of election coverage is not clickbait speculation? Have you actually watched any election coverage? There is plenty of real coverage that takes place, but it doesn't fill a 24-hour news cycle. It consists of things like direct quotes of what candidates actually said and things they actually did. The rest of it is filled with guesses about hypothetical policies they might adopt and what horrible/wonderful things might occur if they do get adopted. In other words, clickbait speculation.
- smsm42 7y ago
  There's a difference between "a lot of coverage of X is clickbait" and "any coverage of X is clickbait because X has not happened yet". The former is likely true, the latter is obviously false.
  - imgabe 7y ago
    There is a difference between "things that did happen concerning a thing that is going to happen" and "hypothetical things that may or may not happen". This coverage is about US employers en masse firing employees unless they censor themselves on social media. This is not a thing that has happened. This is not coverage about the two specific incidents that actually occurred. It is speculation. The person quoted in the article is from the American Enterprise Institute, which is a think tank. This is not someone in charge of setting policy at any US company. This is someone sitting on the sidelines and making guesses.
    - smsm42 7y ago
      > This is not a thing that has happened. Neither have US elections in 2020. Both are likely to happen if current tendencies keep in the future, which makes it sensible to discuss what would happen then. We see people fired or under threat of firing for social media posts all the time. Is it cause for concern for everybody right now? No, not yet. Does it happen frequently enough that it might become an issue in the future? IMO, yes, absolutely. > This is someone sitting on the sidelines and making guesses. These are not just abstract guesses made out of nothing on a whim. Those are educated guesses made following current trends - as much as speaking about who would win 2020 US elections. In both cases, nobody knows the answer until it happens. In both cases, it still makes sense to talk about it because it is important, it might happen, and talking about it now might prevent undesirable result in the future.

r00fus 7y ago

Does Blizzard's muzzling/suspension of a Hearthstone tournament player count? Sure, the player isn't an employee, but essentially earns money by playing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21190265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21190265

yifanl 7y ago
I think a caster was canned as well, which I'd definitely qualify as an employee.
imgabe 7y ago
Not really. Blizzard cites a specific rule that all the tournament players agree to that allows them to do that. Most employees don't have any such agreement with their employer. Even so, with at-will employment, employees have always been subject to being fired for saying something controversial on social media, so this is nothing new.
- unionpivo 7y ago
  I mean there will always be legal excuse. Corporations hr departments have firing down to a fine art.
SamReidHughes 7y ago
Really, that's different. It's perfectly reasonable to prohibit your tournament streams from being used as a medium for activism.

ben_jones 7y ago

The NBA recently [1] condemned an employee's post on Twitter in support of the Hong Kong protesters - shortly after the tweet was deleted and an apology was issued by the employee. While there is not proof of coercion it is strongly implied. Leaks [2] also indicated that the employee's immediate termination was strongly considered. SIGNIFICANT EDIT: it seems the NBA has walked back and is now supporting the employee in question, as a consequence China has banned all NBA broadcasts in the country. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21176976 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21176976 [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/deawtd/gonzalez_as_a_consequence_league_sources_told_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/deawtd/gonzalez_as_a_c... [3]: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/dewiuy/yu_fu_cctv_announced_that_they_will_suspend_all/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/dewiuy/yu_fu_cctv_anno...