4 ms·

I grew up approximately 2.5 miles from a major rocket manufacturer. We're talking R&D and manufacturing of jet propulsion and rocket systems since the 80s. Th

I grew up approximately 2.5 miles from a major rocket manufacturer. We're talking R&D and manufacturing of jet propulsion and rocket systems since the 80s. They totally polluted the water tables in the area with by-products of rocket fuel and other industrial chemicals used to clean engines. They were fined in the 90s and supposedly worked with local water authorities to setup a filtration system... but decades later, they're still finding the pollutants are actually SPREADING to adjacent water tables in communities miles from the original location. Even worse... many women from the community I grew up in have developed strange autoimmune disorders in their 40s and 50s. Like, a truly abnormal number of them. Many of these women are upper middle class, health conscious, non-smokers, including many athletes. Among those disorders, one of the common ones is issues with their thyroid. Turns out that one of the major byproducts of rocket combustion - if consumed - is known to fuck up your thyroid. Am I saying that I know for sure that the pollution of the water tables caused all these women to develop these strange disorders? I can't say for sure. I respect the scientific process and I certainly don't want to jump to any unfair or drastic conclusions, but it seems likely. As recently as 2011 the area was again hit with a $60 million fine for cleanup. A slap on the wrists for the level of ecological damage they've caused. The water basin in this area is permanently damaged, and seems (even after decades or rain fail) to still be seeping into surrounding areas. EDIT: For those wanting more specifics... Aerojet / Rocketdyne is the company. Rancho Cordova is the city. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerojet#EPA_Superfund_sites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerojet#EPA_Superfund_sites

CarVac 7y ago
They did all kinds of crazy stuff in the name of rocket science. Nothing like HF as an exhaust gas... Or injecting liquid mercury into an already carcinogenic nitrogen tetroxide/hydrazine-burning chamber to boost the thrust...
- AndrewStephens 7y ago
  For anyone interested in knowing more about the bonkers rocket research that went on in the 60s and 70s, I recommend the book Ignition! by John D Clark. Publisher's Site: https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/ignition/9780813595832 https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/ignition/978081359583... My Review: https://sheep.horse/2019/3/book-_ignition%21_by_john_d_clark.html https://sheep.horse/2019/3/book-_ignition%21_by_john_d_clark...
bcrosby95 7y ago
Are you talking about the Santa Susana Labs that was used by Rocketdyne for a period of time? Or is there another area with a similarly screwed up story? I live in the area (about 5 miles south of the former lab) and didn't hear anything about it until I moved here. Since then I've read stories about how people living in Simi Valley used to be able to watch some of their rocket tests. Those labs are also the site of one of the worst nuclear power incident in the US - but this was in the 50s. There are also reports of Rocketdyne shooting barrels of chemicals until they exploded into the 90s. Apparently they regularly and illegally disposed of contaminated materials by burning them in open air pits. That's a little insane.
- mtnGoat 7y ago
  Bethpage NY has issues with the groundwater near the old Grumman facility. I would venture to bet there are probably dozens of such sites across the country.
- TaylorAlexander 7y ago
  It’s remarkable how irresponsible people will be if they’re allowed.
agapean 7y ago
I'd like to hear more about your neighbors experiencing autoimmune disorders. My wife is going through something similar. She has been the picture of health until this past year when she suddenly started exhibiting many symptoms that point to thyroid disorder, yet her endocrinologist says there is nothing wrong with her thyroid. She grew up in Southern California, so if the women in your community are finding success in treating their disorders, I would like my wife's doctors to take a look in this direction. Thanks.
- ubertoop 7y ago
  I'm so sorry to hear about your wife. I recommend getting multiple opinions. Unfortunately, much of this research is new and largely varies from doctor to doctor. I don't know specifics (since I'm luckily not a patient) but from what I've heard, there are many different metrics to look at. It's not as simple as any one blood marker. As for treatments, I wish I had good news. Unfortunately, the women I know who are dealing with this are not seeing great results at all. Some have tried IGIF, Methotrexate, and steroids. It's difficult to call any of their treatments a 'success'. I guess if you consider the fact that they're still alive, that's success... But their quality of life is a fraction of what it once was.
arrosenberg 7y ago
Pretty common story from industrial and military waste. I had a biochemistry professor from Oklahoma whose hometown was exposed to industrial pollutants and the population had a substantially increased rate of endocrine cancers over decades.
xibalba 7y ago
You aren't, by chance, referring to Rocketdyne and Simi Valley are you? Bc I lived in Simi in the 90s and this is freaking me out.
- ubertoop 7y ago
  Rocketdyne yes, Simi Valley no.
erentz 7y ago
> Even worse... many women from the community I grew up in have developed strange autoimmune disorders in their 40s and 50s. Interesting myself, my wife, and a number of friends have remarked on how a lot of people around us are getting sick with difficult to explain neurological illness in the past few years. I try to keep my skeptical hat on and say it’s all probably within some base rate, and we are just older, etc. but it doesn’t feel like it and multiple people are having the same bad feeling. There’s little overlap the people affected though. (The closest thing to a cluster would be Silicon Valley.) I really do hope that the health agencies and CDC are properly doing their job and we’re not missing some response developing to a fairly widespread unrecognized pollutant.
- samatman 7y ago
  Silicon Valley, as the name indicates, was once the world capital of semiconductor manufacture. It leads the nation in Superfund sites per square mile.
  - AceJohnny2 7y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/lens/the-superfund-sites-of-silicon-valley.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/lens/the-superfund-sites-...
ubertoop 7y ago
I just want to follow this up with a rather sad and disturbing metric[1] from the EPA regarding this superfund site in Rancho Cordova: "...groundwater extraction and treatment systems (GETs) are operating throughout the site: ARGET, GET A, GET B, GET D, GET E/F, GET H-A, GET J, GET K-A, GET L-A and GET L-B. Together, they remove over 20 million gallons of contaminated groundwater each day on average. Through the end of 2010, all groundwater extraction and treatment systems in OU-3 and OU-5 have treated a cumulative total of 107,000 million gallons of groundwater and removed more than 850,000 pounds of chemical contaminants. Western" Just think about that. 850,000 pounds of chemical contaminates removed from the DRINKING WATER of surrounding communities. If you ask me, pollution on this level should be criminal. It's projected to take 200+ years to fully cleanup. Where's the concern over public health? Barely being discussed. I've heard some people say that it's "all cleaned up" and "the water is totally safe". I'm skeptical. Sure, those systems are in place, and designed to extract known chemicals... But: a) What's the error rate? Surely, some is let through. b) What about the unknown chemicals? What in that froth of contaminated soil has yet to be identified as carcinogenic, neurotoxic, etc.? Surely some of that isn't targeted for removal in the filtration process? ... Some whom I've spoken with doubt that industrial pollutants are the cause of the strange rise in auto immune disorders in the community. They generally seem pretty averse to the idea that a corporation could damage the environment in such a way. It's a weird "us and them" way of thinking... Any discussion of ecological damage is written off in their minds as a necessary evil for progress. I come from a background steeped in respect for science, engineering, and business yet I don't share that view. I recommend "The Devil We Know" if you're skeptical about industrial pollutants [2]. [1] https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.cleanup&id=0901718 https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fus... [2] https://youtu.be/hs4mzSPIzXo https://youtu.be/hs4mzSPIzXo
baxtr 7y ago
I wonder: is there any small, analytics device for home usage that will gauge your drinking water and tell you pollutant levels? Is there anything like that? Maybe for air?
jhammons 7y ago
Ah, yes. Good ol' Aerojet. I grew up in Chino Hills, CA near the base of their operation there. As a kid, playing in the gullies around the area, we didn't really question the sounds of munitions in the background during the day--until we became teenagers and started exploring it. After a few friends retrieved spent (and unspent) mortar shells, it quickly was guarded and a project to clean up the site was initiated. These fine folks have been following the closure, cleanup and build over of the facility for some time: https://www.enviroreporter.com/investigations/aerojet-chino-hills/aerojet-chino-hills-clean-up/ https://www.enviroreporter.com/investigations/aerojet-chino-... For the low price of only $3.5M, you too can own a nice house on a toxic waste site: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2276-Celano-Ct-Chino-Hills-CA-91709/64727044_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2276-Celano-Ct-Chino-Hill...

CarVac 7y ago

They did all kinds of crazy stuff in the name of rocket science. Nothing like HF as an exhaust gas... Or injecting liquid mercury into an already carcinogenic nitrogen tetroxide/hydrazine-burning chamber to boost the thrust...

AndrewStephens 7y ago
For anyone interested in knowing more about the bonkers rocket research that went on in the 60s and 70s, I recommend the book Ignition! by John D Clark. Publisher's Site: https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/ignition/9780813595832 https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/ignition/978081359583... My Review: https://sheep.horse/2019/3/book-_ignition%21_by_john_d_clark.html https://sheep.horse/2019/3/book-_ignition%21_by_john_d_clark...

bcrosby95 7y ago

Are you talking about the Santa Susana Labs that was used by Rocketdyne for a period of time? Or is there another area with a similarly screwed up story? I live in the area (about 5 miles south of the former lab) and didn't hear anything about it until I moved here. Since then I've read stories about how people living in Simi Valley used to be able to watch some of their rocket tests. Those labs are also the site of one of the worst nuclear power incident in the US - but this was in the 50s. There are also reports of Rocketdyne shooting barrels of chemicals until they exploded into the 90s. Apparently they regularly and illegally disposed of contaminated materials by burning them in open air pits. That's a little insane.

mtnGoat 7y ago
Bethpage NY has issues with the groundwater near the old Grumman facility. I would venture to bet there are probably dozens of such sites across the country.
TaylorAlexander 7y ago
It’s remarkable how irresponsible people will be if they’re allowed.

agapean 7y ago

I'd like to hear more about your neighbors experiencing autoimmune disorders. My wife is going through something similar. She has been the picture of health until this past year when she suddenly started exhibiting many symptoms that point to thyroid disorder, yet her endocrinologist says there is nothing wrong with her thyroid. She grew up in Southern California, so if the women in your community are finding success in treating their disorders, I would like my wife's doctors to take a look in this direction. Thanks.

ubertoop 7y ago
I'm so sorry to hear about your wife. I recommend getting multiple opinions. Unfortunately, much of this research is new and largely varies from doctor to doctor. I don't know specifics (since I'm luckily not a patient) but from what I've heard, there are many different metrics to look at. It's not as simple as any one blood marker. As for treatments, I wish I had good news. Unfortunately, the women I know who are dealing with this are not seeing great results at all. Some have tried IGIF, Methotrexate, and steroids. It's difficult to call any of their treatments a 'success'. I guess if you consider the fact that they're still alive, that's success... But their quality of life is a fraction of what it once was.

arrosenberg 7y ago

Pretty common story from industrial and military waste. I had a biochemistry professor from Oklahoma whose hometown was exposed to industrial pollutants and the population had a substantially increased rate of endocrine cancers over decades.

xibalba 7y ago

You aren't, by chance, referring to Rocketdyne and Simi Valley are you? Bc I lived in Simi in the 90s and this is freaking me out.

ubertoop 7y ago
Rocketdyne yes, Simi Valley no.

erentz 7y ago

> Even worse... many women from the community I grew up in have developed strange autoimmune disorders in their 40s and 50s. Interesting myself, my wife, and a number of friends have remarked on how a lot of people around us are getting sick with difficult to explain neurological illness in the past few years. I try to keep my skeptical hat on and say it’s all probably within some base rate, and we are just older, etc. but it doesn’t feel like it and multiple people are having the same bad feeling. There’s little overlap the people affected though. (The closest thing to a cluster would be Silicon Valley.) I really do hope that the health agencies and CDC are properly doing their job and we’re not missing some response developing to a fairly widespread unrecognized pollutant.

samatman 7y ago
Silicon Valley, as the name indicates, was once the world capital of semiconductor manufacture. It leads the nation in Superfund sites per square mile.
- AceJohnny2 7y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/lens/the-superfund-sites-of-silicon-valley.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/lens/the-superfund-sites-...

ubertoop 7y ago

I just want to follow this up with a rather sad and disturbing metric[1] from the EPA regarding this superfund site in Rancho Cordova: "...groundwater extraction and treatment systems (GETs) are operating throughout the site: ARGET, GET A, GET B, GET D, GET E/F, GET H-A, GET J, GET K-A, GET L-A and GET L-B. Together, they remove over 20 million gallons of contaminated groundwater each day on average. Through the end of 2010, all groundwater extraction and treatment systems in OU-3 and OU-5 have treated a cumulative total of 107,000 million gallons of groundwater and removed more than 850,000 pounds of chemical contaminants. Western" Just think about that. 850,000 pounds of chemical contaminates removed from the DRINKING WATER of surrounding communities. If you ask me, pollution on this level should be criminal. It's projected to take 200+ years to fully cleanup. Where's the concern over public health? Barely being discussed. I've heard some people say that it's "all cleaned up" and "the water is totally safe". I'm skeptical. Sure, those systems are in place, and designed to extract known chemicals... But: a) What's the error rate? Surely, some is let through. b) What about the unknown chemicals? What in that froth of contaminated soil has yet to be identified as carcinogenic, neurotoxic, etc.? Surely some of that isn't targeted for removal in the filtration process? ... Some whom I've spoken with doubt that industrial pollutants are the cause of the strange rise in auto immune disorders in the community. They generally seem pretty averse to the idea that a corporation could damage the environment in such a way. It's a weird "us and them" way of thinking... Any discussion of ecological damage is written off in their minds as a necessary evil for progress. I come from a background steeped in respect for science, engineering, and business yet I don't share that view. I recommend "The Devil We Know" if you're skeptical about industrial pollutants [2]. [1] https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.cleanup&id=0901718 https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fus... [2] https://youtu.be/hs4mzSPIzXo https://youtu.be/hs4mzSPIzXo

baxtr 7y ago

I wonder: is there any small, analytics device for home usage that will gauge your drinking water and tell you pollutant levels? Is there anything like that? Maybe for air?

jhammons 7y ago

Ah, yes. Good ol' Aerojet. I grew up in Chino Hills, CA near the base of their operation there. As a kid, playing in the gullies around the area, we didn't really question the sounds of munitions in the background during the day--until we became teenagers and started exploring it. After a few friends retrieved spent (and unspent) mortar shells, it quickly was guarded and a project to clean up the site was initiated. These fine folks have been following the closure, cleanup and build over of the facility for some time: https://www.enviroreporter.com/investigations/aerojet-chino-hills/aerojet-chino-hills-clean-up/ https://www.enviroreporter.com/investigations/aerojet-chino-... For the low price of only $3.5M, you too can own a nice house on a toxic waste site: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2276-Celano-Ct-Chino-Hills-CA-91709/64727044_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2276-Celano-Ct-Chino-Hill...