5 ms·

So what do Indians abroad (SF in particular) think of Modi and his bjp?

y-c-o-m-b 7y ago
The ones I know here in the Portland tech scene are aligned with the Democrats/left here in the US, but they praise Modi and his policies. I don't know enough about India's politics nor Modi (beyond the spattered news articles I read every now and then) to understand why, but they seem to be conflicting positions to me.
- _iyig 7y ago
  I don’t see how they conflict. Your co-workers sound like they’re advocating their own ethnic interests via the party in each country that best supports these.
  - y-c-o-m-b 7y ago
    Like I said, I'm not well informed when it comes to politics in India, so my opinion here is cautious and open to change. Having said that, surface level information I see displays similarities between Modi's nationalist policies/agenda and Trump's nationalist policies/agenda. As an outsider, being anti-Trump and pro-Modi seems conflicting to me is all. I could be wrong.
    - _iyig 7y ago
      I’m friends with one Indian former co-worker on Facebook. He lives in the U.S. and is anti-Trump, but also shares lots of Hindu nationalist links and slogans. From the perspective of his own self-interest, I imagine this feels consistent. Then again, there’s also that group of “Hindus for Trump,” so what do I know. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/hindus-for-trump https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/hindus-for-tru...
    - valarauko 7y ago
      A lot of new Indian immigrants start out liberal and Democrat, and eventually start moving towards the Republicans - almost entirely on fiscal policy. The culture wars the GOP base cares about does not echo with the Indian diaspora. Issues they do care about, and which is likely true of most immigrant groups: - Immigration laws. A lot of Indian arrivals are quite educated, yet struggle with the current system to enter the US. Many favour the Trump plan for a merit based visa regime. - Foreign policy towards India and Pakistan. Modi's popularity is a distinct formulation, and has to do with complex ideas of identity within multi-ethnic India. Only a tiny sliver of Modi's popularity has to do with his policies, and more with his Strongman persona.
      - screye 7y ago
        > Many favor the Trump plan for a merit based visa regime. - Foreign policy towards India and Pakistan. This has been a major sticking point for me. I absolutely despise Trump and could never imagine supporting the GOP. (literally over my dead boy) But, I acknowledge that Trump has had an agenda that objectively speaking, benefits Indians. Democrats have favored Pakistan in many situations, despite them routinely supporting jihadist militia & terrorists in both Afghanistan and India + hosting some of the most wanted men in the US (literally Osama). The US generally has a trigger happy tendency to jump to conclusions about human rights violations in other nations, without any nuanced understanding of the ground reality. So, I would rather a trigger happy group that favors us, than one that doesn't. I am in favor of more taxes, but as someone on an H1B, I can literally not access any of the social safety nets the extra taxation would afford. I am already near $100k in debt from student loans, and none of the loan forgiveness/ free education programs will be of assistance to me. Democrats speak of open borders and welcoming immigrants, but have done nothing to solve the problems faced by Indians who come to the US in the most legal way possible -> Highly educated, high skill. The waiting period on green cards is a minimum 40 years for Indians. At the very least, Trump (or the one smart guy in the cabinet) has changed the way the h1b lottery works to favor highly educated immigrants. It still sucks and some things have gotten worse, but the democrats certainly haven't helped. Lastly, for some reason, South Asians are not seen as a "minority" in the US (also faced by east Asians to some extent). There is a non-trivial amount of racism and internalized insecurities faced these groups and Democrats make no effort to talk about them, despite being loud about the same thing for hispanic and black communities. Jokes against Indians are not considered racist. Every popular Indian in US media is an awkward funny guy and lets not even talk about the "unsexiness" of Indian men.(Don't want to go into it too much, because it makes the comment sound like an incel. Even secure and well groomed Indians fully notice this, but will never speak of it outside male Indian circles, because honestly no one like complainers. Black women have this exact same problem in media, but they are slowly getting their voices heard and the representation they deserve). There is a reason a good chunk of Indians either borrow the 'preppy white person' or 'black rapper' identity, and that is because Indians have not found a way to be comfortable in their own culture yet. This is a hurdle that east asians seem to be getting past this generation. The school admission scandals have only further exacerbated this issue.
screye 7y ago
The general consensus is that he is loved. I am more ambivalent towards his Govt., but educated Indians absolutely love him. The numbers speak for themselves: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48366944 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48366944 . There is no question that the BJP is simply a better choice (least worst choice?) than what every other national party in India offers today. This is something even my most left wing peers agree to. While the BJP govt. has a lot of problems, the anger around section 370 in Kashmir is among the least justified. Section 370 was meant to be a temporary provision in the constitution to better integrate Kashmiris. It failed miserably and 370 itself made it really difficult for the federal govt. from fixing it. Kashmiri local politicians have used the provision to hold Kashmir hostage by playing friendly with separatists, and threatening secession whenever convenient. The treatment of Kashmiris itself has not changed much since Modi came in power. It sucked then, it still sucks now. But, for the first time, the federal govt. has some power to change things. If anything, it was absolutely necessary to remove 370 to even start fixing the sorry state of the region. The house arrest of local leaders was seen as necessary by the Govt, because they were the main inciters of separatist violence. What you need to understand is that every loud mouth in India is a goon. This is basically one group of goons complaining about the other taking power away from them. If either the media or the politicians cared about the common person, then they would step outside Srinagar for once interview a person in the rest of Kashmir. Indians understand the smoke and mirrors of the system, and know not to trust empty words of the Congress and other left wing parties. This is exactly why people do not like the shallow insights provided by people like Hasan Minhaj or the author of this article, who was born in the 0.0001% of the country (literally the son of the CEO of one of the biggest companies in the country) and never lived any of his adult life there. It is impossible to understand India from the outside. That being said, there are some red flags with the Modi Govt. 1. The literal red flag (saffron flag) : a pro Hindu agenda. It has not been pushed as hard as the media might imply. But, it is undeniable that it exists. 2. The consolidation of power. Modi is becoming the singular face of the BJP, and such concentration of power is never good 3. A thin cabinet, especially lacking competent statesmen <- The biggest one for me.
- whydoyoucare 7y ago
  #1 I am not sure why everyone pees their pants when they hear "pro-Hindu" agenda? It appears most world-media tries to paint this agenda with a ethnic and racist brush, which it ain't so. I don't think anyone in India sees it becoming less tolerant to other religions (except the western media, who lack a full context and are largely motivated by selfish incentives than anything else). #2 Consolidation of power? Care to cite some data around this? Thank you. #3 See #2 above. IMO, Modi's cabinet is the most competent of any party who ruled India so far.
Kungfuturtle 7y ago
2nd-gen Indian in Austin here: many folks in my generation are highly critical of Modi and the BJP, but just as many if not more are casual supporters. I honestly do find the more informed they are about Modi's policies, the less likely they are to support him. My parents' generation on the other hand range from moderate supporters, who have "some qualms" about e.g. Kashmir/Assam, to fervent supporters of his nationalist identity and agenda.

The ones I know here in the Portland tech scene are aligned with the Democrats/left here in the US, but they praise Modi and his policies. I don't know enough about India's politics nor Modi (beyond the spattered news articles I read every now and then) to understand why, but they seem to be conflicting positions to me.

_iyig 7y ago
I don’t see how they conflict. Your co-workers sound like they’re advocating their own ethnic interests via the party in each country that best supports these.
- y-c-o-m-b 7y ago
  Like I said, I'm not well informed when it comes to politics in India, so my opinion here is cautious and open to change. Having said that, surface level information I see displays similarities between Modi's nationalist policies/agenda and Trump's nationalist policies/agenda. As an outsider, being anti-Trump and pro-Modi seems conflicting to me is all. I could be wrong.
  - _iyig 7y ago
    I’m friends with one Indian former co-worker on Facebook. He lives in the U.S. and is anti-Trump, but also shares lots of Hindu nationalist links and slogans. From the perspective of his own self-interest, I imagine this feels consistent. Then again, there’s also that group of “Hindus for Trump,” so what do I know. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/hindus-for-trump https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/hindus-for-tru...
  - valarauko 7y ago
    A lot of new Indian immigrants start out liberal and Democrat, and eventually start moving towards the Republicans - almost entirely on fiscal policy. The culture wars the GOP base cares about does not echo with the Indian diaspora. Issues they do care about, and which is likely true of most immigrant groups: - Immigration laws. A lot of Indian arrivals are quite educated, yet struggle with the current system to enter the US. Many favour the Trump plan for a merit based visa regime. - Foreign policy towards India and Pakistan. Modi's popularity is a distinct formulation, and has to do with complex ideas of identity within multi-ethnic India. Only a tiny sliver of Modi's popularity has to do with his policies, and more with his Strongman persona.
    - screye 7y ago
      > Many favor the Trump plan for a merit based visa regime. - Foreign policy towards India and Pakistan. This has been a major sticking point for me. I absolutely despise Trump and could never imagine supporting the GOP. (literally over my dead boy) But, I acknowledge that Trump has had an agenda that objectively speaking, benefits Indians. Democrats have favored Pakistan in many situations, despite them routinely supporting jihadist militia & terrorists in both Afghanistan and India + hosting some of the most wanted men in the US (literally Osama). The US generally has a trigger happy tendency to jump to conclusions about human rights violations in other nations, without any nuanced understanding of the ground reality. So, I would rather a trigger happy group that favors us, than one that doesn't. I am in favor of more taxes, but as someone on an H1B, I can literally not access any of the social safety nets the extra taxation would afford. I am already near $100k in debt from student loans, and none of the loan forgiveness/ free education programs will be of assistance to me. Democrats speak of open borders and welcoming immigrants, but have done nothing to solve the problems faced by Indians who come to the US in the most legal way possible -> Highly educated, high skill. The waiting period on green cards is a minimum 40 years for Indians. At the very least, Trump (or the one smart guy in the cabinet) has changed the way the h1b lottery works to favor highly educated immigrants. It still sucks and some things have gotten worse, but the democrats certainly haven't helped. Lastly, for some reason, South Asians are not seen as a "minority" in the US (also faced by east Asians to some extent). There is a non-trivial amount of racism and internalized insecurities faced these groups and Democrats make no effort to talk about them, despite being loud about the same thing for hispanic and black communities. Jokes against Indians are not considered racist. Every popular Indian in US media is an awkward funny guy and lets not even talk about the "unsexiness" of Indian men.(Don't want to go into it too much, because it makes the comment sound like an incel. Even secure and well groomed Indians fully notice this, but will never speak of it outside male Indian circles, because honestly no one like complainers. Black women have this exact same problem in media, but they are slowly getting their voices heard and the representation they deserve). There is a reason a good chunk of Indians either borrow the 'preppy white person' or 'black rapper' identity, and that is because Indians have not found a way to be comfortable in their own culture yet. This is a hurdle that east asians seem to be getting past this generation. The school admission scandals have only further exacerbated this issue.

screye 7y ago

The general consensus is that he is loved. I am more ambivalent towards his Govt., but educated Indians absolutely love him. The numbers speak for themselves: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48366944 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48366944 . There is no question that the BJP is simply a better choice (least worst choice?) than what every other national party in India offers today. This is something even my most left wing peers agree to. While the BJP govt. has a lot of problems, the anger around section 370 in Kashmir is among the least justified. Section 370 was meant to be a temporary provision in the constitution to better integrate Kashmiris. It failed miserably and 370 itself made it really difficult for the federal govt. from fixing it. Kashmiri local politicians have used the provision to hold Kashmir hostage by playing friendly with separatists, and threatening secession whenever convenient. The treatment of Kashmiris itself has not changed much since Modi came in power. It sucked then, it still sucks now. But, for the first time, the federal govt. has some power to change things. If anything, it was absolutely necessary to remove 370 to even start fixing the sorry state of the region. The house arrest of local leaders was seen as necessary by the Govt, because they were the main inciters of separatist violence. What you need to understand is that every loud mouth in India is a goon. This is basically one group of goons complaining about the other taking power away from them. If either the media or the politicians cared about the common person, then they would step outside Srinagar for once interview a person in the rest of Kashmir. Indians understand the smoke and mirrors of the system, and know not to trust empty words of the Congress and other left wing parties. This is exactly why people do not like the shallow insights provided by people like Hasan Minhaj or the author of this article, who was born in the 0.0001% of the country (literally the son of the CEO of one of the biggest companies in the country) and never lived any of his adult life there. It is impossible to understand India from the outside. That being said, there are some red flags with the Modi Govt. 1. The literal red flag (saffron flag) : a pro Hindu agenda. It has not been pushed as hard as the media might imply. But, it is undeniable that it exists. 2. The consolidation of power. Modi is becoming the singular face of the BJP, and such concentration of power is never good 3. A thin cabinet, especially lacking competent statesmen <- The biggest one for me.

whydoyoucare 7y ago
#1 I am not sure why everyone pees their pants when they hear "pro-Hindu" agenda? It appears most world-media tries to paint this agenda with a ethnic and racist brush, which it ain't so. I don't think anyone in India sees it becoming less tolerant to other religions (except the western media, who lack a full context and are largely motivated by selfish incentives than anything else). #2 Consolidation of power? Care to cite some data around this? Thank you. #3 See #2 above. IMO, Modi's cabinet is the most competent of any party who ruled India so far.

Kungfuturtle 7y ago

2nd-gen Indian in Austin here: many folks in my generation are highly critical of Modi and the BJP, but just as many if not more are casual supporters. I honestly do find the more informed they are about Modi's policies, the less likely they are to support him. My parents' generation on the other hand range from moderate supporters, who have "some qualms" about e.g. Kashmir/Assam, to fervent supporters of his nationalist identity and agenda.