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A new India is emerging, and it is a country ruled by fear
- thewhitetulip 7y agoThey are now starting a NRC in the rest of India where government will "throw out" infiltrators. The ruling party launched said NRC in the state of Assam with much pomp but after it realised that more Hindus were left out of NRC, even the Assam unit of ruling party refused to accept it. What's ironic is that the SC had ruled for an NRC and not the government and even the govt had accepted that NRC doesn't mean people who don't get on it will be expelled.
- devoply 7y agoWhat was great about India compared to Pakistan was the fact that it was a tolerant multi-ethnic democracy that may emulate Europe and North American democracy and become a stable functional multi-faced growing democracy. That dreams seems to be giving away to India another country very much like Pakistan which has little tolerance for anybody. If this non-sense keeps up who knows maybe the military takes over the country taking cues from Modhi's strongman tactics. That has been in fact one major downfall of Pakistan.
- whydoyoucare 7y agoPlease cite evidence beyond NYT and WaPo's ultra-left leaning screams. Thank you.
- saimiam 7y agoEvidence for what? I’m not clear what part you need citations for? Not OP, fwiw.
- woodandsteel 7y agoNYT and WaPo are ultra-left? You have to be kidding. But tell us, what is your position on the Muslims in India.
- thewhitetulip 7y agoThe guy you replied to is what you'd call a redneck in USA No offence intended
- whydoyoucare 7y agoWell, you certainly do offend, by ad-hominem, as opposed to providing contrasting data. NYT and WaPo is an echo-chamber of left-leaning (well, ultra-left as in Antifa may be a stretch, I do agree) liberals who advocate open-borders, increased illegal immigration, increased Government oversight in all aspects of life.
- whydoyoucare 7y agoNo special favors to be doled out to anyone irrespective of religion. Muslims were favored as minorities by all Congress Governments for votes, which is no longer the case. That hurts many, who scream Muslims are being sidelined. No, they are actually being treated fairly as citizens of India and have the same rights as anyone else. We don't want a case of "Everyone is equal. Some are more equal than others".
- naruvimama 7y agoPakistan & Bangladesh have a history of ethnic cleansing of non muslims. You are suggesting that Indians should welcome undocumented muslim migration from these countries at the cost & risk of the citizens. I would like to find an example of another country in your liberal utopia that is willing to do that. Europe? USA?
- heraclius 7y agoThere are a couple of problems with this argument. The most important problem is that many people do not have documentation, but have lived in India for a very long time—since birth, in some cases—and think of themselves and live their lives as Indians. More specifically: First, India arguably also has a history of ethnic cleansing and more broadly ethnoreligiously motivated violence, a history that is all too often suppressed. From the Sunderlal Report: “We can say at a very conservative estimate that in the whole state at least 27 thousand to 40 thousand people lost their lives during and after the police action. …Duty also compels us to add that we had absolutely unimpeachable evidence to the effect that there were instances in which men belonging to the Indian Army and also to the local police took part in looting and even other crimes. During our tour we ga thered, at not a few places, that soldiers encouraged, persuaded and in a few cases even compelled the Hindu mob to loot Muslim shops and houses.” Similarly, the Gujarat riots suggest state complicity. It is often suggested that Muslims caused the violence. The truth is that the violence was initially by Hindus, on the train, that some Muslims then unjustifiably burnt the train, and then that the state compounded the tragedy by allowing Hindu mobs to rampage across the state, if not actively encouraging them to do so.¹ (To be clear I do not endorse the silence of some parts of the Indian left and liberal élite concerning Pakistan and Bangladesh; it is as abhorrent to me as silence concerning the violence of the Sangh Parivar. And I should probably say that if they had to be compared the Sangh Parivar is better than the Pakistani army.) Second, it’s not obvious where the “cost and risk” is. No evidence has been produced to suggest that those left out of the NRC commit more crime or cost the state more. Indeed, the implementation of the NRC itself costs the state rather a lot, and threatens to encourage sedition in the northeast. Third, all parties in India profess to reject two-nation theory. The RSS itself claims that Muslims are also children of Mother India.² And of course Congress claim to support a secular India. Since there is political consensus on this matter of course the idea that loyalty to Bharat or India or whatever conception thereof one supports should be determined independently of religion. Fourth, many European states indeed have welcomed large numbers of Muslim migrants, often to much greater cost than what India has incurred—for example, Germany and Sweden. These actions need not have been unsustainable had all Europe helped; similarly, migration to India as a whole is not particularly unsustainable because India is very large. 0. https://frontline.thehindu.com/static/html/fl1805/18051140.htm https://frontline.thehindu.com/static/html/fl1805/18051140.h... 1. Christophe Jaffrelot, “Communal Riots in Gujarat: The State at Risk?” Working Paper, Heidelberg Papers in South Asian and Comparative Politics (Heidelberg: South Asia Institute, Department of Political Science, University of Heidelberg, July 2003), http://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/volltextserver/4127/1/hpsacp17.pdf http://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/volltextserver/4127/1/hps.... 2. https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/the-saffron-muslim/story-sxdXyHOdasvoBCnV858EWL.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/the-saffron-muslim/stor...
- panpanna 7y agoSo what do Indians abroad (SF in particular) think of Modi and his bjp?
- y-c-o-m-b 7y agoThe ones I know here in the Portland tech scene are aligned with the Democrats/left here in the US, but they praise Modi and his policies. I don't know enough about India's politics nor Modi (beyond the spattered news articles I read every now and then) to understand why, but they seem to be conflicting positions to me.
- _iyig 7y agoI don’t see how they conflict. Your co-workers sound like they’re advocating their own ethnic interests via the party in each country that best supports these.
- y-c-o-m-b 7y agoLike I said, I'm not well informed when it comes to politics in India, so my opinion here is cautious and open to change. Having said that, surface level information I see displays similarities between Modi's nationalist policies/agenda and Trump's nationalist policies/agenda. As an outsider, being anti-Trump and pro-Modi seems conflicting to me is all. I could be wrong.
- _iyig 7y agoI’m friends with one Indian former co-worker on Facebook. He lives in the U.S. and is anti-Trump, but also shares lots of Hindu nationalist links and slogans. From the perspective of his own self-interest, I imagine this feels consistent. Then again, there’s also that group of “Hindus for Trump,” so what do I know. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/hindus-for-trump https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/hindus-for-tru...
- valarauko 7y agoA lot of new Indian immigrants start out liberal and Democrat, and eventually start moving towards the Republicans - almost entirely on fiscal policy. The culture wars the GOP base cares about does not echo with the Indian diaspora. Issues they do care about, and which is likely true of most immigrant groups: - Immigration laws. A lot of Indian arrivals are quite educated, yet struggle with the current system to enter the US. Many favour the Trump plan for a merit based visa regime. - Foreign policy towards India and Pakistan. Modi's popularity is a distinct formulation, and has to do with complex ideas of identity within multi-ethnic India. Only a tiny sliver of Modi's popularity has to do with his policies, and more with his Strongman persona.
- joelx 7y agoThis is how I feel watching a government run by Donald Trump shamelessly self-promote and bash critics. I think America is rapidly turning into an India or Turkey type of situation. I don't trust our elections to be fair and if Donald Trump won in 2020, I think a lot of hope will be lost.
- NTDF9 7y agoI'm not sure why this is being downvoted. Folks who are familiar with political systems can tell very easily how much US politics has devolved to a third world corruption level. US politics is so embarrassing today. At least other countries acknowledge corruption and hate their politicians with passion. Out here in US, everyone is so passive about who be elect for the President
- whydoyoucare 7y agoMaybe those in power have found ways to keep us busy with "identity politics" so they can have their way? I pretty much think people in the US are fighting all wrong battles at this point, and are the real pawns who can be easily manipulated. 1984.
- dTal 7y agoIf there's a problem with the parent comment, it's the tacit assumption that the USA still has some way to go to "stoop to India's level", which smells of American exceptionalism to me. It's not at all clear to me that America is losing the Grand Race to Dictatorship. Modi might be an authoritarian sectarian with worryingly little respect for institutional precedent, but has he reached the level of committing federal crimes on national TV?
- throwGuardian 7y agoThis article is much FUD. In India, people with opposing political views routinely peacefully coexist - in fact, it is a necessity for a nation the size and diversity. Unlike what this article paints, the country is not a two party system. Every shade of opinion has a party that carries it, and it's typical in India to form coalitions vs single party rule, inherently requiring compromises from all involved. In the US today, walking down the street with a MAGA cap on can lead to an attack. Or the very least draw scorn from opposing viewpoints. In India, a Modi fan can argue with a Rahul Gandhi fan, and then peacefully enjoy their beers without fear of violence or discrimination. Among my close friends in India, it was routine for differing political opinions, religions backgrounds to debate, but it never got in the way of our comraderie or fun. And I saw that play out at local, state and national levels.
- valarauko 7y ago>In India, a Modi fan can argue with a Rahul Gandhi fan, and then peacefully enjoy their beers without fear of violence or discrimination. I nodded along till the beer part. Besides, these days it is incredibly hard to hold any public opinion, other than a fawning admiration for the PM. If your family and friends don't eviscerate you, the online trolls will.
- screye 7y ago> I nodded along till the beer part. Haha, probably peacefully enjoy Lassi or an Old Monk smuggled from Daman&Diu
- whydoyoucare 7y agoOkay, so I read the article, and it is standard left-wing playbook often copied by the likes of NYT, WaPo, Huffy Puffy, and Guardian. Get one Muslim to speak against, get one Kashmiri to speak against, and make a giant cast. Nothing new here from Guardian, and nothing unexpected. A better understanding comes from polling a greater number of people, not cherry-picking the ones to suit your agenda. But none of the western media is interested in that, are they?
- sharadov 7y agoThe biggest issue is that there is no opposition to the BJP - which won the election with a massive majority. This is never good in a democracy. But Modi's policies have been abysmal failures - demonetization killed the rural economy and actually ended up being a boon for the black money hoarders ( people ended up converting their black money to white). 99% of money was returned back to the reserve bank, shows the dismal failure of the experiment. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/after-almost-two-years-of-counting-rbi-says-99-3-of-demonetised-notes-returned/articleshow/65589904.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/af... The economy is dragging https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/opinion-how-to-fix-the-economy-the-message-is-clear-2112840 https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/opinion-how-to-fix-the-economy-... The sad part is Modi goes around touting the India growth story,spinning fabrications,people are seeing through this but unfortunately there are no options.
- devoply 7y agoWhy can't you bring back Congress?
- thewhitetulip 7y agoBecause people have been brainwashed by media and BJP propaganda that there is no alternative. When Indira lost after emergency, there was no alternative either. One would think that with technology, people would make well informed decisions. They don't!
- sharadov 7y agoI agree the media has rolled over and completely in bed with the BJP regime. The economy has been robust until now, wait and watch once it starts going downhill..which is now..
- sharadov 7y agoThe Congress party has a leader in Rahul Gandhi who is incompetent, and the self-inflicted damage over the years, makes them a non-choice.
- seamyb88 7y agoI'm from the North of Ireland. We had sectarianism and "troubles" with fear of the "others". We should find a common factor <points elbow at British Imperialism>.
- rahuldottech 7y agoAs an Indian, it bothers me how much blind faith people have in the Modi government. The crap they pull never gets talked about, and if you bring it up, Modi supporters will ridicule you and not even consider that maybe the Modi government could actually be doing something bad. It's reached the point where many media outlets/persons are afraid to criticize the government because that leads to them getting trolled and harassed by BJP/Modi supporters. It's a big f-ing mess. Like another commenter points out, there's no real opposition to the BJP. The only other major national party, the Congress, has a very long history of corrupt practices, and the current leader is a goddamned joke. I wasn't old enough to vote this year, but if I had been, I know I'd have a hard time choosing the lesser evil.
- naruvimama 7y agoSouthern Europe & South America is clearly Catholic. Northern Europe & Northern America is clearly Protestant. Starting from state support for church funding through the tax system to political correctness of politics, christian state holidays, laws, values and culture - Christianity forms the base of "western society" or where christianity has come to "bless" the native cultures. Less said about the Islamic countries the better, where kaffirs have no rights and religion commandments are above everything. The poster children of liberals, France & Denmark have both banned the hijab. Some facts about the history of religion in India. India has been under Islamic invasions, raids and plunder for 700 years. The vast majority of the ancient temples, universities & libraries in the north of the country had been destroyed under this reign of terror. When the European traders landed in India, India was producing 70% of the industrial goods traded globally. The civilising mission and superiority complex of christian evangelism is what allowed the colonial takeover by hook or crook. The church is today the largest non governmental land owner in India, so much for the myth of colonialism not favouring christianity. In 1947, India gives up 24% of its territory to create Islamic Pakistan to accommodate 10% of the Indian population. Pakistan immediately starts ethnic cleansing, increasing the muslim population from 76% to 99% today. This repeats in Kashmir in the 1990's where 76% muslim population is today 99.9% India with a majority 80% Hindus today has remained secular, where minorities enjoy special privileges. Hindus literally have millions of deities, like music or food, it encourages creation of new gods. There are even 6 major schools of atheism within hinduism. Other major religions like Sikhism, Buddhism or Jainism which took root in the same culture have no significant conflicts in contemporary India. Parsies, Syrian christians, native muslims and others who have accepted India as their home and cultural centre have no conflicts with the "majority" population. The conflicts today only exists where a foreign church or the Islamic brotherhood is involved. The church & the brotherhood which have no experience living in peace in a pluralistic society need to reform themselves. They need to accept the right for free, pluralistic societies and sane civil laws like homosexuality and right to abortion. They can not continue using their enormous economic & political capital to bully others into their narrow tunnel vision.