6 ms·

Thanks a lot for posting! Even though I had actually planned to post it later myself ;-) Happy to see my project finally live on hacker news! n8n is a free nod

Thanks a lot for posting! Even though I had actually planned to post it later myself ;-) Happy to see my project finally live on hacker news! n8n is a free node-based "Open Source" (Apache 2.0 with Commons Clause) Workflow Automation Tool. It can be self-hosted, easily extended, and so also used with internal tools. Currently, there is no hosted version yet but you can sign up on the website if you are interested to get informed once it is ready. I created it initially because I realized that every time I wrote a script to automate a small task it took me a very long time. Depending on the task it normally involved: reading documentation, writing code, committing to Github, deploying on a server, error reporting, SSL, make sure it restarts on a crash, and so on. So even very small tasks took at least half a day or day till everything was up and running properly. Existing Open Source solutions were not up to the task and also commercial ones like Zapier did not work for various reasons. Some being that they do not work well with in-house tools or complicated tasks and it gets expensive quite fast, ... So hope n8n is as helpful for other people as it is for me. Also, all help with further improving the project and create more integrations is very welcome! The project website with the nodes which exist and example workflows: https://n8n.io https://n8n.io You can find the source code on Github: https://github.com/n8n-io/n8n https://github.com/n8n-io/n8n The whole project is written in TypeScript and uses Vue for the frontend. So it should be easily extendable for everybody with web development experience. If you have any problems, questions or need an integration which does not exist yet you can post it to the forum: http://community.n8n.io http://community.n8n.io Documentation can be found here: https://docs.n8n.io https://docs.n8n.io Your feedback is highly appreciated! Thanks a lot!! UPDATE: [Sorry are unable to answer any questions right now as it always displays me that I am posting to fast. Will answer as soon as HN allows me!]

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ipoopatwork 7y ago
Looks neat! FYI you have a typo on https://n8n.io/hosting https://n8n.io/hosting you probably meant to s/self-hosted/hosted/
- janober 7y ago
  Thanks a lot for the info. Is fixed!
whitehouse3 7y ago
I'd love to see this on DigitalOcean's app marketplace for self-hosting.
- canada_dry 7y ago
  https://marketplace.digitalocean.com/category/all https://marketplace.digitalocean.com/category/all Interesting resource. But, how do you filter for just self-hosted... I can't find that as a specific category.
  - whitehouse3 7y ago
    All of the apps are "self-hosted". The marketplace just gives you one-click deploy to a VPS. It's especially convenient if you want to play around without committing to learn the setup bits. I haven't used the marketplace for any long term projects. But it's great for making MVP's.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
d4mi3n 7y ago
Fantastic to see more people getting into this space, and even better to be able to inspect the source code! Who's your target demographic here? I work at a place that was considering using Zapier, but couldn't because the security story around that service didn't really meet requirements we had around legal compliance/regulations (SOC, PCI, etc). Having freely available source to audit + a good security story could make n8n very appealing for back-office enterprise workflows.
- janober 7y ago
  Thanks! Really great to hear! It is actually one of my target audiences. Thought n8n has something to offer for kind of everybody. The three groups I had in mind were: 1. Private people and small Startups which care about the price 2. Medium-sized companies for which it is important to integrate their inhouse tools 3. Large companies/banks/government which care about their data
  - elliekelly 7y ago
    > 3. Large companies/banks/government which care about their data As someone who left this space just two years ago and is now selling software into it I've been shocked by my users' appetite (appetites?) for self-hosted solutions. It makes me wonder whether SaaS will be short-lived and we'll see highly-regulated industries like finance and healthcare insisting data doesn't leave their servers unless absolutely necessary.
    - d4mi3n 7y ago
      Depends on the org. Highly regulated places like self hosting because keeping data within your own network removes a lot of the legwork for corporate acquisitions processes. If you run a SASS and a regulated business wants to use you, they need to process a whole slew of items: 1. Compliance - are you PCI/SOC/HIPPA compliant? When was your last audit? What were the results? 2. Legal - contracts, business continuity clauses, indemnity, liability around data, etc 3. Security - when was your last penetration test? Do you have a security team? What is your security posture? The list goes on and there is overlap between different corporate concerns. Keeping things on-prem removes many requirements in exchange for taking on the maintainable burden of a product.
hannasanarion 7y ago
I'm confused, is it self-hosted or not? The website says that a self-hosted solution is on the way, but here you say it can be self-hosted already, and I can't find pricing on your centrally hosted version.
- penagwin 7y ago
  It is self hosted - he hasn't released a hosted version yet but would like to. The source and documentation for setting it up, using it, and developing with it are already available.
- janober 7y ago
  Sorry there was a typo on the "hosting" page. Got fixed in the meantime.
KajMagnus 7y ago
Interesting project, I like Zapier, and was interested in using this. — What about auto converting to GPL always 3? 4? 5? years into the future? So the current version of the project is guaranteed to become open source eventually, although it always starts as Commons-Clause for a few years. Look at the Business Source license — they do that. (I'm doing the same with my project: AGPL —> GPL some years later.) Best wishes :- )
- janober 7y ago
  I thought about that. But did not decide yet as I first have to inform myself and think properly about what implications that could have. For example, could it mean a split of the community like what happened for Elasticsearch which is never good for any project.
- Dayshine 7y ago
  Hey, as someone who works in non commercial, public health research, please consider using a license that doesn't penalise charities. If you're using a dual license model, only rich organisations can use your software in security conscious industries like academic research (open sourcing our whole platform is far too expensive). Please, please, pick a variant of AGPL that allows non commercial use.
  - KajMagnus 7y ago
    I'm confused :- ) Who are you writing to? Me or @janober? Did you mean that n8n could switch to AGPL? All versions of AGPL allow both non-commercial and commercial usage. (And one needs to share-alike one's modifications.) In any case I like the idea to be free for charities and public research :- ) You work with something like that? Is AGPL ok with you, or you're worried it might require you to open-source parts of your platform?
    - Dayshine 7y ago
      You! :) AGPL requires all users to open-source their projects using your work, even if they don't modify your work. It is an extension of GPL not LGPL. If my web application uses an AGPL library, it's a derivative work. I, like many in my field, work in a small team with almost no budget. My current project involves collecting sensitive (medical) data over the internet. The cost and risk involved in open-sourcing our application is prohibitive. However, it's slightly less relevant for your project, as I can't see much value in directly integrating it into another application :) This is more a problem we run into with AGPL libraries, not AGPL applications.
anderspitman 7y ago
I see some integrations related to functions. Could you use this as some sort of a self-hosted alternative for AWS Lambda or CloudFlare Workers?
- janober 7y ago
  Hard to answer that in a general sense. It depends a lot on how you use AWS Lambda. In most cases, I would say no. But possible for a few.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> n8n is a free node-based "Open Source" (Apache 2.0 with Commons Clause) Commons Clause is not Open Source. It is free-of-charge (for certain uses) source-available proprietary software.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- eastendguy 7y ago
  I understand that developers need to earn money for their work. => Another license option to use is the the one of UI.Vision and others: Split the product in an Open-Source core (e. g. GPL license) and a proprietary part for the commercial "PRO" features of the product.
  - janober 7y ago
    Yes is an option but one I would hate to take. It would mean that I have to artificially cripple the product for all users just to eventually earn money from a few. That was the opposite of what I wanted. I wanted that everybody can use it for free which gives the product the chance to get used by very many people and so become amazing for all users over time. So ended up with the Commons Clause as it aligned the most with my vision.
VvR-Ox 7y ago
Thank you very much for creating this - I love it! :-D I don't know about all the licensing stuff and will have to evaluate if I can use it for official business but I'm glad I can just use it for my own stuff in private without paying high fees. Don't take the harsh critics about the licensing too personally - I think it's cool that you released your code and thought about Open Source licensing. Keep up the great work!
- janober 7y ago
  Thanks a lot. That is great to hear! If you are unsure about if you can use it, simply explain what you want to do in an email to "license@n8n.io". The goal with the license was not keeping people from using it. The main goal was to start it in a way to make the project long term sustainable which I thought would be in the interest of all people using it. Also does not mean that people can never use it in a way which the license prohibits by default. It simply means that away has to be found which is beneficial to all sides. So just like anywhere in life.
johnx123-up 7y ago
Any comparison with https://www.flogo.io/ https://www.flogo.io/ ?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ipoopatwork 7y ago

Looks neat! FYI you have a typo on https://n8n.io/hosting https://n8n.io/hosting you probably meant to s/self-hosted/hosted/

janober 7y ago
Thanks a lot for the info. Is fixed!

whitehouse3 7y ago

I'd love to see this on DigitalOcean's app marketplace for self-hosting.

canada_dry 7y ago
https://marketplace.digitalocean.com/category/all https://marketplace.digitalocean.com/category/all Interesting resource. But, how do you filter for just self-hosted... I can't find that as a specific category.
- whitehouse3 7y ago
  All of the apps are "self-hosted". The marketplace just gives you one-click deploy to a VPS. It's especially convenient if you want to play around without committing to learn the setup bits. I haven't used the marketplace for any long term projects. But it's great for making MVP's.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

d4mi3n 7y ago

Fantastic to see more people getting into this space, and even better to be able to inspect the source code! Who's your target demographic here? I work at a place that was considering using Zapier, but couldn't because the security story around that service didn't really meet requirements we had around legal compliance/regulations (SOC, PCI, etc). Having freely available source to audit + a good security story could make n8n very appealing for back-office enterprise workflows.

janober 7y ago
Thanks! Really great to hear! It is actually one of my target audiences. Thought n8n has something to offer for kind of everybody. The three groups I had in mind were: 1. Private people and small Startups which care about the price 2. Medium-sized companies for which it is important to integrate their inhouse tools 3. Large companies/banks/government which care about their data
- elliekelly 7y ago
  > 3. Large companies/banks/government which care about their data As someone who left this space just two years ago and is now selling software into it I've been shocked by my users' appetite (appetites?) for self-hosted solutions. It makes me wonder whether SaaS will be short-lived and we'll see highly-regulated industries like finance and healthcare insisting data doesn't leave their servers unless absolutely necessary.
  - d4mi3n 7y ago
    Depends on the org. Highly regulated places like self hosting because keeping data within your own network removes a lot of the legwork for corporate acquisitions processes. If you run a SASS and a regulated business wants to use you, they need to process a whole slew of items: 1. Compliance - are you PCI/SOC/HIPPA compliant? When was your last audit? What were the results? 2. Legal - contracts, business continuity clauses, indemnity, liability around data, etc 3. Security - when was your last penetration test? Do you have a security team? What is your security posture? The list goes on and there is overlap between different corporate concerns. Keeping things on-prem removes many requirements in exchange for taking on the maintainable burden of a product.

hannasanarion 7y ago

I'm confused, is it self-hosted or not? The website says that a self-hosted solution is on the way, but here you say it can be self-hosted already, and I can't find pricing on your centrally hosted version.

penagwin 7y ago
It is self hosted - he hasn't released a hosted version yet but would like to. The source and documentation for setting it up, using it, and developing with it are already available.
janober 7y ago
Sorry there was a typo on the "hosting" page. Got fixed in the meantime.

KajMagnus 7y ago

Interesting project, I like Zapier, and was interested in using this. — What about auto converting to GPL always 3? 4? 5? years into the future? So the current version of the project is guaranteed to become open source eventually, although it always starts as Commons-Clause for a few years. Look at the Business Source license — they do that. (I'm doing the same with my project: AGPL —> GPL some years later.) Best wishes :- )

janober 7y ago
I thought about that. But did not decide yet as I first have to inform myself and think properly about what implications that could have. For example, could it mean a split of the community like what happened for Elasticsearch which is never good for any project.
Dayshine 7y ago
Hey, as someone who works in non commercial, public health research, please consider using a license that doesn't penalise charities. If you're using a dual license model, only rich organisations can use your software in security conscious industries like academic research (open sourcing our whole platform is far too expensive). Please, please, pick a variant of AGPL that allows non commercial use.
- KajMagnus 7y ago
  I'm confused :- ) Who are you writing to? Me or @janober? Did you mean that n8n could switch to AGPL? All versions of AGPL allow both non-commercial and commercial usage. (And one needs to share-alike one's modifications.) In any case I like the idea to be free for charities and public research :- ) You work with something like that? Is AGPL ok with you, or you're worried it might require you to open-source parts of your platform?
  - Dayshine 7y ago
    You! :) AGPL requires all users to open-source their projects using your work, even if they don't modify your work. It is an extension of GPL not LGPL. If my web application uses an AGPL library, it's a derivative work. I, like many in my field, work in a small team with almost no budget. My current project involves collecting sensitive (medical) data over the internet. The cost and risk involved in open-sourcing our application is prohibitive. However, it's slightly less relevant for your project, as I can't see much value in directly integrating it into another application :) This is more a problem we run into with AGPL libraries, not AGPL applications.

anderspitman 7y ago

I see some integrations related to functions. Could you use this as some sort of a self-hosted alternative for AWS Lambda or CloudFlare Workers?

janober 7y ago
Hard to answer that in a general sense. It depends a lot on how you use AWS Lambda. In most cases, I would say no. But possible for a few.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> n8n is a free node-based "Open Source" (Apache 2.0 with Commons Clause) Commons Clause is not Open Source. It is free-of-charge (for certain uses) source-available proprietary software.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
eastendguy 7y ago
I understand that developers need to earn money for their work. => Another license option to use is the the one of UI.Vision and others: Split the product in an Open-Source core (e. g. GPL license) and a proprietary part for the commercial "PRO" features of the product.
- janober 7y ago
  Yes is an option but one I would hate to take. It would mean that I have to artificially cripple the product for all users just to eventually earn money from a few. That was the opposite of what I wanted. I wanted that everybody can use it for free which gives the product the chance to get used by very many people and so become amazing for all users over time. So ended up with the Commons Clause as it aligned the most with my vision.

VvR-Ox 7y ago

Thank you very much for creating this - I love it! :-D I don't know about all the licensing stuff and will have to evaluate if I can use it for official business but I'm glad I can just use it for my own stuff in private without paying high fees. Don't take the harsh critics about the licensing too personally - I think it's cool that you released your code and thought about Open Source licensing. Keep up the great work!

janober 7y ago
Thanks a lot. That is great to hear! If you are unsure about if you can use it, simply explain what you want to do in an email to "license@n8n.io". The goal with the license was not keeping people from using it. The main goal was to start it in a way to make the project long term sustainable which I thought would be in the interest of all people using it. Also does not mean that people can never use it in a way which the license prohibits by default. It simply means that away has to be found which is beneficial to all sides. So just like anywhere in life.

johnx123-up 7y ago

Any comparison with https://www.flogo.io/ https://www.flogo.io/ ?