6 ms·

Well, lets not forget their detention camps for ethnic minorities they don't like: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/23/china-footage-reveals-hundreds-

Well, lets not forget their detention camps for ethnic minorities they don't like: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/23/china-footage-reveals-hundreds-of-blindfolded-and-shackled-prisoners-uighur https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/23/china-footage-... I mean at this rate, I seriously think in a decade or two, we're going to find a Holocaust level event has been going on in China that's going to make the Nazis look like amateurs. But instead, we're focused on stupid left/right political differences and figuring out whether gender binary bathrooms cause anxiety.

elliekelly 7y ago
I don’t think it’s even a find out a decade or two from now thing. Despite our best effort to shield our eyes from the evidence we can say with reasonable certainty that China is currently committing all of the same atrocities as the Nazis.
- corodra 7y ago
  My speculation, the problem is the huge dependency the USA has on Chinese manufacturing and now on investments (Hollywood, Silicon Valley, etc). Like, as much as these tariffs are going to hurt us in the short term, I'm not fully against them. It's just like an business, you cannot have a large portion of your income come from one client or rely on just one supplier. You become far too dependent on them and are not willing to cross them, even if their demands don't align with you or really isn't advantageous for you in the long term. But you'll always move that goal post a little for short term happiness until you did it so much, you realize your goal post is in a whole different country. I'd personally like to see far more diversification in USA imports and exports. A 21.5% dependency on Chinese imports... when I did freelance years ago I panicked over the fact I had a customer that made up 12% of my yearly income. I quickly did a reach out to obtain new customers so I could drop that to roughly 6%. While I understand geopolitics is a different ball game... it's really, really dangerous to have a 20%+ reliance on a supplier. Being shut off that easy on that much of goods and materials, that easily, is pretty scary.
- ddrdrck_ 7y ago
  Brainwashing millions of people is a terrible thing to do, but I don't believe it is on the same level of atrocity than genocide and mass murdering. Nazis did not try to "assimilate" Jews by forcing them to reject their religion and traditions, and by forcing weddings between aryan and jews (could you imagine that ?).
  - Grangar 7y ago
    There have been reports of Mengele-tier experimenting on Uyghur prisoners such as unsedated organ transplants. If these are true I'd say it's already on the same level vertically and only has horizontal scale left to exceed.
  - corodra 7y ago
    Do... do you actually believe those are simply "re-education" camps? I mean, they're as much re-education as Auschwitz was a weight-loss camp. It's not going to be the first time when "Oh, this isn't a bad place for these people. We're trying to help them. That's all we're doing... NO CAMERAS!" Like, I'm having a stroke right now. You need to read some history. Let's see: Japan Unit 731, the "Congo Free State" under the Belgians, the Russian gulags in general (fun part, they imprisoned their WW2 vets because they came in contact with western ideals thus needed their own re-education program). The cover up for the Armenian genocide is another cluster fuck. Shit, what else... How about something more recent. Sudan covering up the Darfur genocide in 2003. This is just off the top of my head. Oh right, and the 30+ million Mao had killed. Kind of forgot about that little Chinese gem. I mean seriously. I'd give the benefit of the doubt to Hamas with Jewish prisoners before I'd give it to a communist regime.
    - ddrdrck_ 7y ago
      Do you really believe that all the people actually incarcerated in these "re-education camps" will actually be killed directly or indirectly (forced labour, starvation) ? If it is the case then I agree it would be comparable to holocaust or other genocides. But it is not what is happening at the moment, and I am convinced it won't happen (there has been no mass murdering in Tibet afaik)
eli_gottlieb 7y ago
Putting ethnic minorities in concentration camps is an early-Holocaust atrocity today.
- blix 7y ago
  Or maybe it's just a Japanese-internment level atrocity.
  - inlined 7y ago
    It’s never a good sign to need to split hairs over which caliber atrocity is being committed. That being said, separating children from families is genocide according to the Rome statute, so this pretty high up on the list.
    - blix 7y ago
      I don't mean to minimize any atrocity. But it is interesting to note that some of the strongest opponents of Chinese behavior have done similar things in the past, and perhaps even through the current day.
  - cmyr 7y ago
    This is utterly unhelpful whataboutism. The japanese internment is not ongoing, is broadly recognized as an atrocity, and has been formally apologized for by the governments involved. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Liberties_Act_of_1988 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Liberties_Act_of_1988 - https://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/1988-government-apologizes-to-japanese-canadians https://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/1988-government-apologizes...
- pvaldes 7y ago
  > Putting ethnic minorities in concentration camps is an early-Holocaust atrocity today. Yep. But maybe we should fix Guantanamo first
hevi_jos 7y ago
For your information, Mr Hitler killed over 5 million people. Mao killed way over 30 million. Absolutely incompetent, he manage to remain in power just using terror. The other day there was an 70th anniversary of the founding of PRC and this criminal's gigantic picture was at the hotspot.
- corodra 7y ago
  Oh, I know. I'm a Polish-Jew. The actions of the communists is not shrouded to me. It's just a shame that the western world is so apologetic to them, I'm forced to use nazi references. Communists make fascists look like little-league amateurs playing with crayons when it comes to genocide. That's played out multiple times in multiple places in the 20th century. The real power of the communists though, they do a far better job at having a smile on their face and making everyone else think "Genocide is good for the party". Kind of like how everyone still this Che is some hero and wear shirts with his face on it. Oh, and that 30 million is just your average, run of the mill murder. The numbers of starvation due to piss poor policy, greed and power hunger are estimated to be even higher than that. Like that good ol' four pest plan. That worked out so amazingly well.... idiots. You reap what you sow... oh wait, they couldn't.
- throwaway_bad 7y ago
  Technically speaking it's not really apples to apples. One is due to malice (hitler was actively trying to exterminate a race). The other is due to incompetence (mao would've preferred if those people didn't die but was too stupid to predict the result of his actions). Not trying to defend either of them of course. But just for the record books we would should have a saner way of counting. If you're going to attribute deaths due to lack of foresight then the inventor of cars probably have one of the highest kill counts. Or Genghis Khan for fathering such a large population of mortals who eventually needs to die.
  - blix 7y ago
    > When there is not enough to eat, people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill. I think you are overattributing his stupidity here. Engineered famine is a fantastic way to make sure populations that don't like you are less of a problem in the future. The Holdomor and Irish Potato Famine are two other obvious examples.
duckqlz 7y ago
Holocaust level events have already happened in China. For instance, Hitler was responsible for ~11million deaths, Stalin ~6-9million and Mao was estimated at over 40million.[1] Currently China has an entire ethnic group under full lock down where millions of “terrorists” and their families are already interned in large camps where there are reports of forced sterilization.[2] Due to the pervasiveness of technology things will likely get much worse. However I disagree with the assertion that we are not doing anything because we are distracted by civil liberty issues such as trans rights I think there are far more economic factors involved. Furthermore, using the unrelated tragedies of other countries to accentuate polarizing partisan topics diminishes both the severity and legitimacy of an argument. [1] https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/02/05/who-killed-more-hitler-stalin-or-mao/ https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/02/05/who-killed-more-hit... [2] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7546833/amp/Chinese-muslims-reveal-rapes-abortions-forced-sterilisations-concentration-camps.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7546833/amp/Chinese...

elliekelly 7y ago

I don’t think it’s even a find out a decade or two from now thing. Despite our best effort to shield our eyes from the evidence we can say with reasonable certainty that China is currently committing all of the same atrocities as the Nazis.

corodra 7y ago
My speculation, the problem is the huge dependency the USA has on Chinese manufacturing and now on investments (Hollywood, Silicon Valley, etc). Like, as much as these tariffs are going to hurt us in the short term, I'm not fully against them. It's just like an business, you cannot have a large portion of your income come from one client or rely on just one supplier. You become far too dependent on them and are not willing to cross them, even if their demands don't align with you or really isn't advantageous for you in the long term. But you'll always move that goal post a little for short term happiness until you did it so much, you realize your goal post is in a whole different country. I'd personally like to see far more diversification in USA imports and exports. A 21.5% dependency on Chinese imports... when I did freelance years ago I panicked over the fact I had a customer that made up 12% of my yearly income. I quickly did a reach out to obtain new customers so I could drop that to roughly 6%. While I understand geopolitics is a different ball game... it's really, really dangerous to have a 20%+ reliance on a supplier. Being shut off that easy on that much of goods and materials, that easily, is pretty scary.
ddrdrck_ 7y ago
Brainwashing millions of people is a terrible thing to do, but I don't believe it is on the same level of atrocity than genocide and mass murdering. Nazis did not try to "assimilate" Jews by forcing them to reject their religion and traditions, and by forcing weddings between aryan and jews (could you imagine that ?).
- Grangar 7y ago
  There have been reports of Mengele-tier experimenting on Uyghur prisoners such as unsedated organ transplants. If these are true I'd say it's already on the same level vertically and only has horizontal scale left to exceed.
- corodra 7y ago
  Do... do you actually believe those are simply "re-education" camps? I mean, they're as much re-education as Auschwitz was a weight-loss camp. It's not going to be the first time when "Oh, this isn't a bad place for these people. We're trying to help them. That's all we're doing... NO CAMERAS!" Like, I'm having a stroke right now. You need to read some history. Let's see: Japan Unit 731, the "Congo Free State" under the Belgians, the Russian gulags in general (fun part, they imprisoned their WW2 vets because they came in contact with western ideals thus needed their own re-education program). The cover up for the Armenian genocide is another cluster fuck. Shit, what else... How about something more recent. Sudan covering up the Darfur genocide in 2003. This is just off the top of my head. Oh right, and the 30+ million Mao had killed. Kind of forgot about that little Chinese gem. I mean seriously. I'd give the benefit of the doubt to Hamas with Jewish prisoners before I'd give it to a communist regime.
  - ddrdrck_ 7y ago
    Do you really believe that all the people actually incarcerated in these "re-education camps" will actually be killed directly or indirectly (forced labour, starvation) ? If it is the case then I agree it would be comparable to holocaust or other genocides. But it is not what is happening at the moment, and I am convinced it won't happen (there has been no mass murdering in Tibet afaik)

eli_gottlieb 7y ago

Putting ethnic minorities in concentration camps is an early-Holocaust atrocity today.

blix 7y ago
Or maybe it's just a Japanese-internment level atrocity.
- inlined 7y ago
  It’s never a good sign to need to split hairs over which caliber atrocity is being committed. That being said, separating children from families is genocide according to the Rome statute, so this pretty high up on the list.
  - blix 7y ago
    I don't mean to minimize any atrocity. But it is interesting to note that some of the strongest opponents of Chinese behavior have done similar things in the past, and perhaps even through the current day.
- cmyr 7y ago
  This is utterly unhelpful whataboutism. The japanese internment is not ongoing, is broadly recognized as an atrocity, and has been formally apologized for by the governments involved. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Liberties_Act_of_1988 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Liberties_Act_of_1988 - https://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/1988-government-apologizes-to-japanese-canadians https://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/1988-government-apologizes...
pvaldes 7y ago
> Putting ethnic minorities in concentration camps is an early-Holocaust atrocity today. Yep. But maybe we should fix Guantanamo first

hevi_jos 7y ago

For your information, Mr Hitler killed over 5 million people. Mao killed way over 30 million. Absolutely incompetent, he manage to remain in power just using terror. The other day there was an 70th anniversary of the founding of PRC and this criminal's gigantic picture was at the hotspot.

corodra 7y ago
Oh, I know. I'm a Polish-Jew. The actions of the communists is not shrouded to me. It's just a shame that the western world is so apologetic to them, I'm forced to use nazi references. Communists make fascists look like little-league amateurs playing with crayons when it comes to genocide. That's played out multiple times in multiple places in the 20th century. The real power of the communists though, they do a far better job at having a smile on their face and making everyone else think "Genocide is good for the party". Kind of like how everyone still this Che is some hero and wear shirts with his face on it. Oh, and that 30 million is just your average, run of the mill murder. The numbers of starvation due to piss poor policy, greed and power hunger are estimated to be even higher than that. Like that good ol' four pest plan. That worked out so amazingly well.... idiots. You reap what you sow... oh wait, they couldn't.
throwaway_bad 7y ago
Technically speaking it's not really apples to apples. One is due to malice (hitler was actively trying to exterminate a race). The other is due to incompetence (mao would've preferred if those people didn't die but was too stupid to predict the result of his actions). Not trying to defend either of them of course. But just for the record books we would should have a saner way of counting. If you're going to attribute deaths due to lack of foresight then the inventor of cars probably have one of the highest kill counts. Or Genghis Khan for fathering such a large population of mortals who eventually needs to die.
- blix 7y ago
  > When there is not enough to eat, people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill. I think you are overattributing his stupidity here. Engineered famine is a fantastic way to make sure populations that don't like you are less of a problem in the future. The Holdomor and Irish Potato Famine are two other obvious examples.

duckqlz 7y ago

Holocaust level events have already happened in China. For instance, Hitler was responsible for ~11million deaths, Stalin ~6-9million and Mao was estimated at over 40million.[1] Currently China has an entire ethnic group under full lock down where millions of “terrorists” and their families are already interned in large camps where there are reports of forced sterilization.[2] Due to the pervasiveness of technology things will likely get much worse. However I disagree with the assertion that we are not doing anything because we are distracted by civil liberty issues such as trans rights I think there are far more economic factors involved. Furthermore, using the unrelated tragedies of other countries to accentuate polarizing partisan topics diminishes both the severity and legitimacy of an argument. [1] https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/02/05/who-killed-more-hitler-stalin-or-mao/ https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/02/05/who-killed-more-hit... [2] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7546833/amp/Chinese-muslims-reveal-rapes-abortions-forced-sterilisations-concentration-camps.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7546833/amp/Chinese...